Looting Camps

[IanP]

This may have been answered before, but the rule book and opinions are unclear re some of the details re looting camps.


a. Units contacting an enemy camp (to sack).
Should this be with a front edge/corner of the unit, or is it legal to contact with a side edge/rear corner (e.g. by wheeling) and count as looting the camp?
Also can you contact the camp in any phase (especialy as part of an impact move) or only in the manouvre phase? RAW would suggest the manouvre phase to me.

b. Apart from not being able to move while looting, what other actions are/aren't available to units while looting an enemy camp?

The rules say that they cannot be shot at, but it does not appear to preclude them from shooting. This seems strange as they could then shoot without reply.

Are their melee abilities affected? If they are charged by enemy are they assumed to immediately cease looting? From other posts I agree that they can't evede.

Can you recover cohesion for a unit while it is looting? And for that matter can generals freely join and leave such units? (I would assume yes to this one).

My basic assumption is that the whole unit would be "out of the game" until they cease looting, but the rules do not make this clear. An opponent assumed that the only
restriction on the unit was that they couldn't move till they cease looting, but are otherwise unaffected.

Ian.

[david53]

This may have been answered before, but the rule book and opinions are unclear re some of the details re looting camps.


a. Units contacting an enemy camp (to sack).
Should this be with a front edge/corner of the unit, or is it legal to contact with a side edge/rear corner (e.g. by wheeling) and count as looting the camp?
Also can you contact the camp in any phase (especialy as part of an impact move) or only in the manouvre phase? RAW would suggest the manouvre phase to me.

b. Apart from not being able to move while looting, what other actions are/aren't available to units while looting an enemy camp?

The rules say that they cannot be shot at, but it does not appear to preclude them from shooting. This seems strange as they could then shoot without reply.

Are their melee abilities affected? If they are charged by enemy are they assumed to immediately cease looting? From other posts I agree that they can't evede.

Can you recover cohesion for a unit while it is looting? And for that matter can generals freely join and leave such units? (I would assume yes to this one).

My basic assumption is that the whole unit would be "out of the game" until they cease looting, but the rules do not make this clear. An opponent assumed that the only
restriction on the unit was that they couldn't move till they cease looting, but are otherwise unaffected.

Ian.

a. Front edge only in the movement phase

b. Can raise cohesion if still stuck at the camp but general has to stay as your sacking the camp.


Yes but if you can't move till the camp is sacked theres not a lot you can do if your attacked you'll be able to use normal rules to fight.

TBH this has'nt come up in any of the games i have played, you would'nt move to sack camp if there is an enemy unit that would be able to charge you in the rear so a lot of this would'nt coime up.

[nikgaukroger]

a. Front edge only in the movement phase

Doesn't it just say "contact" in the rules (or move into contact or some such) rather than specifying front edge?

Fairly sure I've hit a camp with my front corner only to sack it, and seem to recall it being done with a side edge as well. Could have been played wrong though ...

[kevinj]

A couple of other points:

Although you can only choose to move to contact with a camp in the manoeuvre phase, there are other times when you could involuntarily move into contact, such as in the impact phase if your charge target evaded past it, or similarly while pursuing.

Also, if you have moved into contact with a Fortified camp, but have not succeeded in breaking in, you are not lootins so could evade if charged (and of a type allowed to).

[david53]

A couple of other points:

Although you can only choose to move to contact with a camp in the manoeuvre phase, there are other times when you could involuntarily move into contact, such as in the impact phase if your charge target evaded past it, or similarly while pursuing.

Also, if you have moved into contact with a Fortified camp, but have not succeeded in breaking in, you are not lootins so could evade if charged (and of a type allowed to).

Yes I did forget about the fortified type.

[gozerius]

A BG looting a camp can only stop looting after passing a CMT in the JAP. Until then it can't move, so it cannot evade enemy chargers. They are preoccupied.

[IanP]

If I may summarise what we have so far.

Points where we seem to have a consensus:

a. BGs looting a camp may not evade (or otherwise move). However if they are in contact with a fortified camp but not yet able to loot, they are not restricted.

b. BGs looting may not be shot at (clearly stated in the rules).

c. A general may join a BG that is looting, and may attempt to bolster them, but may not subsequently leave said BG until they cease looting?

d. A BG can only intentionally contact a camp during the movement phase, but can legally contact a camp unintentionally contact the camp in impacts, pursuits etc.

Points where there appears to be a difference of opinion:

e. Can a BG contact a camp in any manor (with their side edge, rear corner, by expanding etc), or must it be a front edge in the same manner as contacting an enemy BG?

Points that we do not yet have any opinions or seem to be in doubt:

f. Can BG in contact with a camp shoot if it has a target in arc and range? (Would seem highly unlikely and unfair considering point (b), but the rules don’t seem to say one way or the other).

g. If BG looting is charged by an enemy BG, do they turn bases to face? Can they turn or slide over bases in the manoeuvre phase to align with the enemy BG, possibly breaking contact with the enemy camp? Do they count as fighting in two directions, even though they are technically not in melee with the camp? As with (a) I assume that if it is a fortified camp they have not yet broken into then they are not restricted?

I think that (e) and (g) really need clarification, or there could be all sorts of potential disputes, especially in a competition.

[philqw78]

An unfortified camp is considered destroyed as soon as it touched by an enemy BG*. So g. is moot. They can turn and conform etc.

*The CMT is just to stop the looters having fun.

[kevinj]

e. Can a BG contact a camp in any manor (with their side edge, rear corner, by expanding etc), or must it be a front edge in the same manner as contacting an enemy BG?

The rules just say you move into contact in the manoeuvre phase and specify that it is not a charge, so I would infer that any contact is allowable.

[babyshark]

A BG looting a camp can only stop looting after passing a CMT in the JAP. Until then it can't move, so it cannot evade enemy chargers. They are preoccupied.

There is nothing in the evade rules (or elsewhere, that I am aware of) that prevents a looting BG from evading. They can't move in the maneuver phase until they pass their CMT; but that is different.

Marc

[kevinj]

The point was regarding evades was answered in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=14788

[babyshark]

The point was regarding evades was answered in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=14788

Quote from RBS in that thread: "They can't evade while looting. (They can if attacking a fortified camp that they have not yet successfully diced to sack)."

I asked the same question way back in the beta test days and I believe I got the opposite answer. Too bad the search function had to go away, or I would look for the thread.

Marc

[gozerius]

f. Can BG in contact with a camp shoot if it has a target in arc and range? (Would seem highly unlikely and unfair considering point (b), but the rules don’t seem to say one way or the other).

No. Your hands are full.

c. A general may join a BG that is looting, and may attempt to bolster them, but may not subsequently leave said BG until they cease looting?

A general with a looting BG is not restricted from moving away.

g. If BG looting is charged by an enemy BG, do they turn bases to face? Can they turn or slide over bases in the manoeuvre phase to align with the enemy BG, possibly breaking contact with the enemy camp? Do they count as fighting in two directions, even though they are technically not in melee with the camp? As with (a) I assume that if it is a fortified camp they have not yet broken into then they are not restricted?

A BG contacted by an enemy flank or rear charge must turn bases to face. Is not considered fighting in two directions. Looting is not fighting. BGs in contact with a looted camp can conform to enemy, but only if this does not cause the BG to lose contact with the camp.
A looted camp remains on the table until all looting BGs have passed their CMT to stop looting, so it does interfere with movement.