to build fortifications!?

[pomakli]

Why are only a handful of the factions able to build fortifications?

I am not talking about building city castles, but I think the number should be more!

The number of the factions which couldn't build fortifications should be lesser than the ones which could build!!

Thanks

Pom

[rbodleyscott]

Why are only a handful of the factions able to build fortifications?

I am not talking about building city castles, but I think the number should be more!

The number of the factions which couldn't build fortifications should be lesser than the ones which could build!!

Thanks

Pom

The lists are based on the TT FOG lists, which are based on the historical evidence. Armies only get field fortifications if there is some historical evidence that they actually used them in an actual field battle. Theoretical capability is not sufficient. (And note that fortified camps is a separate issue, likewise based on historical evidence).

Those armies for which there is no such evidence don't get them.

[Morbio]

I may be missing something here because I haven't read the rules since RoR came out and I'm not a TT player. But one of the questions that has been on my mind since I've seen camps with pallisades, planks of wood with spikes, and bolt shooters is what do they give you?

I'm assuming that a camp with pallisade takes longer to loot, but nothing else, is that correct?

I'm also assuming the spiked planks just slow down movement, but nothing else, is that correct?

Finally, I'm assuming that the bolt shooters are just immobile missile troops that do a reasonably heavy damage... Correct?

Whenever I've played against these I've not noticed any discernable disadvantage to me and I've never picked any of these, whenever I've had them available, because the cost seems very high and I'd rather have more mobile units. I guess I'm missing something. Would the enlightened please help the ignorant. Thanks.

[maximvs]

I do find it quite amusing that retreating bolt shooters drag their weapon with them as they flee. Very dedicated!

[deeter]

Morbio,

Fortified camps are just harder to loot. Heavy artillery gets longer range and an extra dice, but can't move. On the TT, they can't even face. Fortifications give you a POA if your behind them but don't slow down movement. On the TT, you can deploy them further onto the map and place artillery there too -- could be useful. I would take any of them expect maybe the camp.

Deeter

[Morbio]

Well, for me, I can't see me buying them. The main place I've seen them available is the Roman (or Roman clone) armies. Generally, with a Roman army which is heavy on Elite and Superior HF then I'd expect to be fighting away from the camp (because not many armies are going to want to get in a toe to toe fight - they will want to utilise missile and cavalry to weaken the Romans first) by marching after the enemy and trying to pin it down, so the Bolt Shooters and spikes will have very limited use.

Maybe I'm wrong... you can probably tell I've only played the Romans twice

[TimW]

Artillery can be quite handy against light horse - horse in general, in fact, but it can do quite a bit of damage to a horse archer unit. Heavy bolt shooters have quite a range as well.

As for fortifications, I'm not entirely sure of their usefulness either. I've been experimenting (v. the AI) with a Bosporan army but even against heavy foot armies like the Ronamns the fortifications haven't actually been attacked by the AI because it never gets close enough to my end end of the battlefield. Could be I'm not using the fortifications in the most imaginative way of course.

I would expect that actually getting an opponent to attack fortifications could be difficult if victory can be obtained elsewhere on the field, though I suppose a Galatian army led by someone who thinks like a Galatian may decide to charge them anyway. Sometimes ancient and medieval generals (or their armies despite their general's wiser intentions) would do things no modern gamer with the slightest knowledge of history would attempt. Ever met anyone who handled a French 100 Years War army like the originals at Crecy, Poitiers or Agincort? I haven't.

[deeter]

I tried them with the Bosporans as well (before I discovered cav spam). Lined em up in the middle with a sapce between each. Behind I put MF archers and pike in the gaps. Paisely's Mecedonians ignored them and proceeded to out manuever everything else. After all my other troops were dead, I rolled up my center, never once fighting across the stakes. All for one POA? Not worth giving up mobility for that.

They might be good to seal off a flank though. Hmmm.

Deeter

[Morbio]

Maybe the limited use of Bolt Shooters and Fortifications is partly because the cost of looting a camp isn't worth the effort to do so, unless you happen to get there by accident. I know I never put myself out to defend my camp, mainly because I think it is more worthwhile to be mobile. The 2 points are not worth the lack of mobility and I've never seen any significant effect on morale (that the message says when a camp is looted).
Now, if the camp was worth 10% or 15% of the armies break points, then that would be a different matter. I'm sure there has been a debate on this before