effects of terrain on close combat

BlackPrince · Post by **BlackPrince** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:24 am

If a BG of MF bow are entirely in an open field but on the edge of it they are not considered in open terrain. They are charged by CAV lancers who contact the front of the MF are the CAV considered to be in open terrain or to be in the open field?

timurilenk · Post by **timurilenk** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:37 am

It depends where the bases are - if no part is on the terrain then they are in open - it is best to deploy the MF a fraction inside the terrain.

pcelella · Post by **pcelella** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:58 am

timurilenk wrote:It depends where the bases are - if no part is on the terrain then they are in open - it is best to deploy the MF a fraction inside the terrain.

I don't believe that is true. The way I've seen it played is that if the MF bases are in the open when hit by the lancers, they are then considered to be in the open. If you want the protection of being in terrain for the purposes of combat and cohesion, then the entire unit needs to be in the terrain with no portion extending out that gets contacted.

Peter C
Sword and Sandal Gaming Blog
http://swordandsandalgaming.blogspot.com/

timurilenk · Post by **timurilenk** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:00 am

pcelella wrote:
timurilenk wrote:It depends where the bases are - if no part is on the terrain then they are in open - it is best to deploy the MF a fraction inside the terrain.
I don't believe that is true. The way I've seen it played is that if the MF bases are in the open when hit by the lancers, they are then considered to be in the open. If you want the protection of being in terrain for the purposes of combat and cohesion, then the entire unit needs to be in the terrain with no portion extending out that gets contacted.

Peter C
Sword and Sandal Gaming Blog
http://swordandsandalgaming.blogspot.com/

Well what you say may be correct, but I was answering the question about the Cv

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:06 am

At impact if the mounted/HF are not in the terrain the MF are facing them in the open. This may change after conforming

timurilenk · Post by **timurilenk** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:13 am

philqw78 wrote:At impact if the mounted/HF are not in the terrain the MF are facing them in the open. This may change after conforming

You said what I was trying to say Phil, but much more eloquently

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:30 am

timurilenk wrote:
philqw78 wrote:At impact if the mounted/HF are not in the terrain the MF are facing them in the open. This may change after conforming
You said what I was trying to say Phil, but much more eloquently

No they are not. The OP has said that the MF are entirely in an open field. So the MF can't be in the open....

Of course it doesn't necessarily help them depending on how you read the cohesion test -1 for "MF testing for losing close combat vs Mtd or HF in open".
i.e. does the MF have to be in the open or is it the HF/Mtd? I think authors have said before it's the latter. Pity that isn't cleared up in the FAQ.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:41 am

Try P135 Open terrain

POAs and cohesion test modifiers only applying in 'open terrain' do not count if the base claiming the POA or causing the cohesion test modifier even partly enters uneven, rough or difficult terrain

kevinj · Post by **kevinj** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:00 pm

No they are not. The OP has said that the MF are entirely in an open field. So the MF can't be in the open....

That's true, but if they are lining the edge, they can be hit by Lancers who do not have to enter the terrain themselves, therefore Hammy's point re P135 applies and they can claim a POA for Lance.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:20 pm

If MF are being charged by lancers then for the lancers to count their lance POA the lancers need to be entirely in the open. For the MF to count a POA penalty then at least one of the enemy bases fighting them has to be entirely in the open.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:10 pm

it is best to deploy the MF a fraction inside the terrain.

That's why this previous post was very good advice.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:06 pm

Agreed -it would be completely stupid to deploy MF with the edge of their base outside of the terrain, where they can be contacted by HF or mounted who do not have to enter the terrain.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:49 pm

Polkovnik wrote:Agreed -it would be completely stupid to deploy MF with the edge of their base outside of the terrain, where they can be contacted by HF or mounted who do not have to enter the terrain.

It sometimes happens with undrilled MF. e.g. I've seen it happen that missile MF want to short move to stay within the terrain, fail CMT so decide to poke out they may be able to move short again and get some heavy shooting in. A second failed CMT test leaft them a bit embarrassed!

Also, players transitioning from DBM make this mistake. In that system foot withe any part of their base in terrain can given mouted a severe combat penalty.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:31 pm

So if a BG in line of 4 Cav lancer bases fights a BG in line of 4 MF bases, where three of each base is fully in terrain and one of each base is completely in open terrain, and the cav win, does the MF take a minus for losing to (one) cav in the open?

ShrubMiK · Post by **ShrubMiK** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:13 pm

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:03 am

Agreed

BlackPrince · Post by **BlackPrince** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:56 pm

And I thought I was asking a dumb question but from your responses it can be unclear.

Main points;
If you opponent lines up on the edge of a terrain feature clarify exactly is the BG on the every edge or slightly back as soon as the BG has finished moving.
I good tip for undrilled troops make sure your opponent passes a CMT something easily over looked. As they may assume you can stop automatically at the edge of a terrain feature.