Swiss 1500-1550?

khurasan_miniatures · Post by **khurasan_miniatures** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:15 pm

Hello, I am about to release the Swiss for the Italian Wars period, circa 1500-1550, and I'd like to know how to organize the special unit packs for FoGR. Do the big units have a mix of pike and halberd troop types in them, or do they all just count as pike?

If they all count as pike, will the list say that some models must, or at least really should, be depicted with halberds? Gamers tend to take the weapons classification very, very literally, so I don't want to make up a unit of, say, 12 bases of pikes with three command, 37 pikes, and eight halberds and then have people not buy it because of the halberds.

Also, will there be those separate bands of halberds that can run into the flank of enemy pike columns?

Thanks in advance!

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:13 pm

Swiss pike battle groups have 10-16 bases, comprising 8-16 bases of pikemen and 0-2 bases of halberdiers.

The halberds get a bonus in overlap so are well worth having.

khurasan_miniatures · Post by **khurasan_miniatures** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:11 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:Swiss pike battle groups have 10-16 bases, comprising 8-16 bases of pikemen and 0-2 bases of halberdiers.

The halberds get a bonus in overlap so are well worth having.

Cheers for that. Wow, that's a big unit! Has experience shown that gamers will want them 10+2 strong, or 16+2?

Are all models four to a base?

xavier · Post by **xavier** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:33 pm

khurasan_miniatures wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:Swiss pike battle groups have 10-16 bases, comprising 8-16 bases of pikemen and 0-2 bases of halberdiers.

The halberds get a bonus in overlap so are well worth having.
Cheers for that. Wow, that's a big unit! Has experience shown that gamers will want them 10+2 strong, or 16+2?

Are all models four to a base?

It would actually be 8+2 or 14+2.
You can create packs in order to represent 8+2 BGs, and also complimentary packs for 6 pike bases for those gamers that want to go for the big BGs...
Since historically the halberdiers were mixed with the pikemen, having halberdiers figurines in a pure pike BG is not a problem.

And yes always 4 elements per base.

Xavier

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:11 pm

10+2 and 12+2 are also legal.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:21 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:10+2 and 12+2 are also legal.

Minimaxers will want 12+2, because BGs with more than 12 bases count as Grand Battle Groups which count as 2 BGs each for atrrition purposes. 14 is the minimum size to count the BG as a Grand Battle Group, which bumps up the break point of the army.

Of course if you lose a GBG it is bad.....

khurasan_miniatures · Post by **khurasan_miniatures** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:24 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:10+2 and 12+2 are also legal.
Minimaxers will want 12+2, because BGs with more than 12 bases count as Grand Battle Groups which count as 2 BGs each for atrrition purposes. 14 is the minimum size to count the BG as a Grand Battle Group, which bumps up the break point of the army.

Of course if you lose a GBG it is bad.....

But these are the Swiss we are talking about!!!

Perhaps I will go with 12+2. Thanks all!

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:56 pm

Go 14+2 which is much better for very subtle reasons that Richard explained to me as you have a central file of 6 Pike bases and 2 flank columns of 4 Pike and 1 of Halbard so you can take 2 loses due to fire on the way in (you will) and still be able to have the maximum PoA plus the two halberd bases expand and make a horrible mess of the opponents.

khurasan_miniatures · Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:38 pm

Timmy I took your advice and the unit deal will be 14+2.

irondog068 · Post by **irondog068** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:30 pm

I set up My Swiss mostly armored 8+2 with 1 or 2 Kiels 10+2. Can't remember list is at home. All armored and as many elite as I could.
Shredded My Turks. Next week plan to do a Great Italian wars thing with one of my partners in crime bringing a historical opponent.

Will keep you informed. Only drag when you get 12+2 size Kiels you have to watch your wheels to avoid terrain that will mess your very, very scary BG. And the no flank thing makes them even more deadly.