Are Tibetan dismounted catapghracts really that bad?

[khurasan_miniatures]

I invested a fair amount of coin to get tibetan dismounted cataphracts made, as one of the gripes gamers have had is that the Tibetans are allowed to dismount but models for the dismounts were not always made by manufacturers. Well, I listened, made them, and no one buys them!

They dismount as Superior Drilled Heavily Armoured Offensive spearman. Is that not good under FoG? Why don't customers who buy them use the dismounts? Thanks for any info.

[ethan]

I invested a fair amount of coin to get tibetan dismounted cataphracts made, as one of the gripes gamers have had is that the Tibetans are allowed to dismount but models for the dismounts were not always made by manufacturers. Well, I listened, made them, and no one buys them!

They dismount as Superior Drilled Heavily Armoured Offensive spearman. Is that not good under FoG? Why don't customers who buy them use the dismounts? Thanks for any info.

They are awesome troops. Problem is that they are equally awesomely expensive.

[khurasan_miniatures]

I invested a fair amount of coin to get tibetan dismounted cataphracts made, as one of the gripes gamers have had is that the Tibetans are allowed to dismount but models for the dismounts were not always made by manufacturers. Well, I listened, made them, and no one buys them!

They dismount as Superior Drilled Heavily Armoured Offensive spearman. Is that not good under FoG? Why don't customers who buy them use the dismounts? Thanks for any info.

They are awesome troops. Problem is that they are equally awesomely expensive.

Thanks Ethan. Does the ability to dismount as such blunt problems they may have facing enemy Knights?

[ethan]

I invested a fair amount of coin to get tibetan dismounted cataphracts made, as one of the gripes gamers have had is that the Tibetans are allowed to dismount but models for the dismounts were not always made by manufacturers. Well, I listened, made them, and no one buys them!

They dismount as Superior Drilled Heavily Armoured Offensive spearman. Is that not good under FoG? Why don't customers who buy them use the dismounts? Thanks for any info.

They are awesome troops. Problem is that they are equally awesomely expensive.

Thanks Ethan. Does the ability to dismount as such blunt problems they may have facing enemy Knights?

If you can get them into Knights they will crush them, certainly I would dismount some to face knights.

[BlackPrince]

Sorry I am not interested in your dismounted CATs but I am interested to know when Khurasan are going the release their Hundred Years War range?

[IanB3406]

The bigger issue with Tibetans in FOG is the Heavy armor will often be wasted due to the amount of heavy weapon infantry in EOD......it makes the points paid for Heavy Armor a waste, and the Tibetan army small and expensive in particular for theme tournaments.

And they really aren't a mainstream army, so outside of tournament play..........

[ShrubMiK]

That sort of thing is a problem for quite a lot of troop types in quite a lot of armies against quite a lot of opponents though, without necessarily being fatal to an army.

In open tournaments I would have though Tibetans would be as attractive as other mainly cataphract armies.

Within theme I agree seems a like wasting points, but no more than something like Palmyran vs. a canny Roman who chooses not to take armoured foot. Or the other way round - a Roman taking armoured, skilled swordsman legionaries is wasting points against many potential opponents, including cataphracts. I've seen those matchups won by the player who is "wasting" points more often than not

The Tibetans could try screening the HW infantry and taking on armoured cav; or just attempt to punch through the cheap but mostly fragile MF. Is it really a sho-stopper for playing the army and having fun?

[ethan]

The bigger issue with Tibetans in FOG is the Heavy armor will often be wasted due to the amount of heavy weapon infantry in EOD......it makes the points paid for Heavy Armor a waste, and the Tibetan army small and expensive in particular for theme tournaments.

And they really aren't a mainstream army, so outside of tournament play..........

I think the heavy weapon things is overdone. Consider, the heavy weapons tend to be average medium foot, the cataphracts are superior. So the impact sees the foot fighting off a double poa against superiors - which is a very bad fight and likely looking at a -3 moral check after impact. Then they will fight at evens in melee, but the catapharcts are still superior which is nearly as good as a PoA. If the foot remain steady, the cats break off and get another huge charge next turn.

The heavy armor let's the cats beat up all the armoured mounted - also very common in EotD.

Look at it this way, almost every other troop type in EotD loses a PoA in eithert impact or melee to the Tibetans and they basically never fight down a PoA.

[philqw78]

I think the heavy weapon things is overdone. Consider, the heavy weapons tend to be average medium foot, the cataphracts are superior. So the impact sees the foot fighting off a double poa against superiors - which is a very bad fight and likely looking at a -3 moral check after impact. Then they will fight at evens in melee, but the catapharcts are still superior which is nearly as good as a PoA. If the foot remain steady, the cats break off and get another huge charge next turn.

The heavy armor let's the cats beat up all the armoured mounted - also very common in EotD.

Look at it this way, almost every other troop type in EotD loses a PoA in either impact or melee to the Tibetans and they basically never fight down a PoA.

The heavy armour is also good against bow. Unfortunately most armies in EotD use XBow.

[ShrubMiK]

This is true. But it's not like heavy armour is actually *bad* against XBow!

[philqw78]

This is true. But it's not like heavy armour is actually *bad* against XBow!

But it is no better than unprotected

[ShrubMiK]

Right. So it is arguably a waste of points. Which may be no consolation to the other player if your cataphracts avoid the crossbows, or trash them anyway.

[khurasan_miniatures]

And it is nice that the small batch of Tibetan foot can actually be heavy foot!

[philqw78]

And it is nice that the small batch of Tibetan foot can actually be heavy foot!

Drilled and armoured. Very nice.

I will get around to getting some Tibetan dismounts. But have just finished 300 mounted red indians/native americans. So its not top of the list yet.

[khurasan_miniatures]

Sorry I am not interested in your dismounted CATs but I am interested to know when Khurasan are going the release their Hundred Years War range?

I now have all the models. It's four poses of knights with cutdown lances (as this is a Crecy period army, that seems the way all knights began the engagement), six poses of archers, four poses of command (two different commanders, a standard bearer and a horn player with one of those long horns with the little flag on it), and three poses of Welsh knifemen.

I've got them in inventory, I've just got to find some pro painter to do them up so I can get them on the store for sale. Soon, I hope! My painter is working on a bunch of 15mm sci fi models that are coming out, but after that, if I don't find someone else in the meantime, I'll send him the fearsome Anglais.

[khurasan_miniatures]

I will get around to getting some Tibetan dismounts. But have just finished 300 mounted red indians/native americans. So its not top of the list yet.

Ha ha! I was too late to catch you, Phil! I just got the greens in for the Iroquois, made specifically for pre-European contact. So it's:

Commander in armour with deer antler helmet, holding wampum belt
Three poses of armoured close fighters with club, bow, and backshield
Six poses of braves with a mixture of bow, bow and shield, club, club and shield, club bow and shield, and club and bow

The braves will be useful for renaissance gaming as well, before the Iroquois adopted the musket, but the armoured nobles I believe fell out of favour as soon as the Indians saw that it was useless against the musket.

[philqw78]

Commander in armour with deer antler helmet, holding wampum belt
Three poses of armoured close fighters with club, bow, and backshield
Six poses of braves with a mixture of bow, bow and shield, club, club and shield, club bow and shield, and club and bow

The braves will be useful for renaissance gaming as well, before the Iroquois adopted the musket, but the armoured nobles I believe fell out of favour as soon as the Indians saw that it was useless against the musket.

I'm afraid you were/are far too early to catch me. Mine had horses, carbines, six shooters and lots of scalps taken from the US Cavalry. B troop ain't coming back.

[Irmin]

I will get around to getting some Tibetan dismounts. But have just finished 300 mounted red indians/native americans. So its not top of the list yet.

Ha ha! I was too late to catch you, Phil! I just got the greens in for the Iroquois, made specifically for pre-European contact. So it's:

Commander in armour with deer antler helmet, holding wampum belt
Three poses of armoured close fighters with club, bow, and backshield
Six poses of braves with a mixture of bow, bow and shield, club, club and shield, club bow and shield, and club and bow

The braves will be useful for renaissance gaming as well, before the Iroquois adopted the musket, but the armoured nobles I believe fell out of favour as soon as the Indians saw that it was useless against the musket.

What's the time frame from greens to casting?

[khurasan_miniatures]

What's the time frame from greens to casting?

Great question, the answer being, "it depends!"

I use contract casters to make my castings, and some of these make their own models in addition to making models for small companies (like mine). They crank out lots of their own stuff, then periodically turn to their contract work. So it depends on where the job is in the cycle. Sometimes the models come in at just the right time, and it will only be a month or so, other times I have waited 4 months for models back. But the advantage is that the castings are beautifully done, and reasonably priced.

I also use some dedicated casters. All they do is make castings of things for other companies. A lot of this is not even wargaming figurines, actually. They are usually faster, and the casting are equally nice usually (although often with more flash, for some reason), but they are more expensive, and I have to set my price point higher to hope to ever make my investment back.

The Iroquois are a niche army, I suspect. It's not the classic perfect balance army that people have such a strong preference for. So I'm going with the first caster on them, to keep my costs down because I don't think I'll sell as many of them as, say, the Late Romans. (Please prove me wrong!) So I honestly have no idea when I will get them back. End of April? August?

There, aren't you sorry you asked?

[Irmin]

There, aren't you sorry you asked?

Not at all, I now know to do my mounted heavy army before my foot heavy army