Stepping forward into contact

[hammy]

Something that I forgot to mention from a playtest (bad me) and still is present in the new version.

If a battle group has more than one base 'spare' when it charges can it step forward as far as possible with the first 'spare' base even if this does not result in a contact but will allow the second 'spare' base to contact.

Attempt at ASCII:

__222
___A
11A
AA

Is the above allowed? Two bases of A have stepped forward but the first has not contacted enemy.

From my reading of the rules I think this is NOT allowed but I am not sure.

Hammy

[rbodleyscott]

It is allowed. All bases are in partial edge contact with another base.

In fact, as the rules presently stand, it is compulsory. Whether this should be so is perhaps open to doubt. It does look a bit odd in the situation you illustrate. On the other hand we did not want people to be able to avoid hitting 2 battle groups by wheeling so one is hit first.

Needs further thought I think.

[hammy]

The reason I think the rules don't allow it (and certainly don't require it) at present is that they state "Once contact has been made any bases of the charging group not yet in contact can be stepped forward until their front rank bases also contact an enemy base"

The bases CAN be stepped forwards and each base it would seem can only step forward until their front rank bases cotact enemy.

In my example the first base to step forwards has not contacted enemy so by the current wording I think it is not allowed.

Hammy

[terrys]

The bases CAN be stepped forwards and each base it would seem can only step forward until their front rank bases cotact enemy.

In my example the first base to step forwards has not contacted enemy so by the current wording I think it is not allowed.

Hammy is correct. If a base can't contact another enemy base it can't be stepped forwards. The first base in this instance can't contact therefore can't step forward.
This is the result we want, but should probably make it more explicit.

[rbodleyscott]

Strange. I thought we had changed it to MUST. Are you sure it does not say MUST somewhere else in the section?

[hammy]

Strange. I thought we had changed it to MUST. Are you sure it does not say MUST somewhere else in the section?

Looking back earlier in the section it does say that you must contact but in the section on stepping forward it reverts to can, possibly a touch confusing.

I still can't see anything that would allow a base to step forward without contacting enemy though even if this in turn lets a second base contact.

[terrys]

Looking back earlier in the section it does say that you must contact but in the section on stepping forward it reverts to can, possibly a touch confusing.

I still can't see anything that would allow a base to step forward without contacting enemy though even if this in turn lets a second base contact.

On reflection - You are allowed to step forwards with the 1st unit because it is in 'edge' contact with an enemy. This would allow the 2nd unit to step forwards. Not necessarily what we want.

[nikgaukroger]

On reflection - You are allowed to step forwards with the 1st unit because it is in 'edge' contact with an enemy. This would allow the 2nd unit to step forwards. Not necessarily what we want.

And it would not apply in all cases as elements do not have to line up. The 1st unit may not be in edge contact.

[hammy]

On reflection - You are allowed to step forwards with the 1st unit because it is in 'edge' contact with an enemy. This would allow the 2nd unit to step forwards. Not necessarily what we want.

It also wouldn't work if the charging battle group was slightly offset to the right.

We had a situation like this in the first playtest game we played and we did allow the charging unit to step forward but at the time we were not sure if that was correct.

I can see issues with a long line of chargers being stopped dead just because the end base has hit something (possibly even a BG charging as a ZOI thingy) but I can also see problems with the same long line catapulting the end element many base depths forward to hit something. Imagine a 6 base BG of chariots where just the end base hits enemy, if the remaining bases can step forward without contact to allow one or more bases to contact enemy you could in theory get a step forward of 195mm in 15mm and 395mm in 25mm! Add that to a 5 mu move and a chariot could contact enemy 520mm away....

Something for the developers to chew over I think

Hammy

[shall]

I think we can settle at the fact we should add that to our discussion list adn we will do so. Its a good one to sort out the specifics thereof. Any other good examples to add to the debate most welcome.

Si