North African Armies

[robertthebruce]

I have a hard and long study night, but I could do a little brake for us:


This list covers north African armies from 1494 to 1698, including...


All the Berbery (This lands are called Berbería for us, I´m not sure if Berbery is correct) States. Wattasid Berber dynasty from 1494 to 1548, Sharif dinastyes from 1511 to 1659 (Saadits) and 1631 to 1698 (Alauí) in the actual Morocco, Sahara and west Algeria. Algerian State under Ottoman rule (I´m not sure how can we call this pseudo-country) from 1516 to 1698, Hafsid Dinasty in Tunisia from 1494 to 1534, under Spanish protection from 1535 to 1574. in 1574 Tunisia is conquered by the Ottomans.


Siphais: Only Algerians and Hafsids from 1574


Light Lancers: I think that they can be classified ass light lancers too, usually the close cavalry and the skirmish cavalry were the same soldiers but making different jobs when it was necessary.

Mounted Arquebusiers: My first new of them is in the Argel Battle in 1541, the Spanish tell that the mounted Berbers were using Arquebus and Crossbows to attack them by skirmishing tactics. But I´m sure that it could be used before, the Granadines had some arquebusiers in Spain and there was a lot of Andalusians and Moriscos in this armies.

Arquebusiers: Same problem.

Turkish Garrison Janisaries: Only Algerians from 1518 and Hafsids from 1574 Must been upgraded??

Turkish marines: not included.Only Algerians From 1516 and Hafsids from 1574 Medium foot/unarmoured/Arquebus 0-8

Aragonese Garrison Soldiers: Only Hafsid: From 1535 to 1574 Medium Foot/unarmoured/Arquebus 0-8????? Xavi I need you.

I think that some heavy cavalry could be included for the Moroccan armies (Watassid, Saadist and Alauí) because the Siphais were not used by them. Maybe an option for the Siphais.

Shipahis and other Moroccan Cavalry. Unarmoured/Armoured. Superior/Average.....


And what about the Camels Richard, Could be included?? Because the Saadist and Aluí were using camels riders armed with arquebus up to today


David

[nikgaukroger]

Cheers - will use this in the next update

[rbodleyscott]

Has it been decided that the LH should not be Javelins, Light Lancers, Swordsmen as I previously suggested?

[nikgaukroger]

Has it been decided that the LH should not be Javelins, Light Lancers, Swordsmen as I previously suggested?

All the depictions I have seen so far have the cavalry with a long light lance, often used over arm. This seems more like Light Lance to me, however, if there are accounts of missiles then I'm quite happy for Javelins to be added.

Stradiots also need to be considered.

[nikgaukroger]

Siphais: Only Algerians and Hafsids from 1574

Why only these?

I have currently assumed that all states would have a small core of "nobles" who would justfy better armour (just) and morale. I've called these sipahis for want of a better name. Or am I wrong.

Or are you thinking of something else?

And what about the Camels Richard, Could be included?? Because the Saadist and Aluí were using camels riders armed with arquebus up to today


David

I've included some as they are funny

[robertthebruce]

Why only these?

I have currently assumed that all states would have a small core of "nobles" who would justfy better armour (just) and morale. I've called these sipahis for want of a better name. Or am I wrong.

Or are you thinking of something else?

I supposed it Nick, but the Noble Cavalry in Algeria and Tunisia adopted the Ottoman equippement and fighting tactics, I think thay can be called Siphais just like you think.

But the Morroccan Noble Cavalry was a few different, this cavalry wasn´t a permanent unit, they only fought together when the army was assembled, and the most of them were not armed with shock lance, in the Sixteenth century at least.

This Cavalry unlike the Sipahis were not used to fight against close formations, if not normally fought against tribal opponents. and their appearance was different, they not waering helmtet.


I think the number of the mounted Arquebusiers, should be increased, they were the army base, and there is an old tradition about them in Morocco, we can find them, or a recreation of them in the south and west of Morocco.
The tribal Cavalry was progressively replaced for the mounted arquebusiers. The tribal cavalry was a direct heir of the medieval berber cavalry, same equimement and same tactics, but some times in greater numbers and more closed formations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUXvXopfcyU

Min 4.

It´s in Spanish and the video is talking about the Almoravids, but we can get an idea of its importance in the Moroccan tradition.


And Richard, I can make a more detalied introduction of each faction.

[nikgaukroger]

I supposed it Nick, but the Noble Cavalry in Algeria and Tunisia adopted the Ottoman equippement and fighting tactics, I think thay can be called Siphais just like you think.

By which I assume you mean they adopted the bow as the principle weapon?

Suggestion for dates for this?

I think the number of the mounted Arquebusiers, should be increased, they were the army base, and there is an old tradition about them in Morocco, we can find them, or a recreation of them in the south and west of Morocco.
The tribal Cavalry was progressively replaced for the mounted arquebusiers. The tribal cavalry was a direct heir of the medieval berber cavalry, same equimement and same tactics, but some times in greater numbers and more closed formations.

Suggested numbers?

Also a Cv opotion for some?

[rbodleyscott]

I supposed it Nick, but the Noble Cavalry in Algeria and Tunisia adopted the Ottoman equippement and fighting tactics, I think thay can be called Siphais just like you think.

By which I assume you mean they adopted the bow as the principle weapon?

How sure are we of this?

[nikgaukroger]

I'm not sure about it - plus even the Ottomans were becoming less reliant on the bow during this period and we may well end up classifying some of them as light lancers IMO.

However, hopefully David can help us

[robertthebruce]

By which I assume you mean they adopted the bow as the principle weapon?

Suggestion for dates for this?

I´m not sure, but the most of the Sipahis in Algeria were sended by the Sultan to Barbarrosa in 1518, when Algeria was accepted as a Ottoman province. 1500 Ottoman Soldiers and cannons (Siphais and Janisaries) were used to defend Tremecen in 1518 against the Spanish.

Probably the Siphais were armed at the Ottoman way at the begining, but the most of times they not fought in open terrain. The war in Argel was a Siege war. I would not bet they have kept the bow at the end of the sixteenth century.


Dates:
From 1518 for Algeria
From 1574 for Hafsids

And I think that 0-18 is too much, never more than 12.


I have founded a picture of the battle of Argel:

Suggested numbers?

Also a Cv opotion for some?

8-24 for Mounted Aquebusiers. Did you see the video? maybe a superior option? they were a few fanatics
No viable the cavalry option.


The Moroccan Cv Issue:

Here your are the light cavalry:




The Moroccan Noble Cavalry were equiped very close with them. Probably with better armour.



Richard Questions:


-Moroccan are Saadist, Wattasid and Aloui.


Army Notes (Here I need some help of English speakers)

This list covers north African armies from 1494 to 1698, including the “Barbary” states such as the Wattasid Berber dynasty from 1494 to 1548, the Sharif dynasties from 1511 to 1659 (Saadits) and 1631 to 1698 (Alaoui) in Morocco, the Sahara and West Algeria. It also includes semi-independent Algeria under Ottoman rule from 1516 to 1698, the Hafsid dynasty in Tunisia from 1494 to 1574 (although under Spanish protection from 1535) and Tunisia from 1575 after the Ottoman conquest ...

Morocco was ruled by diferent berber clans in the XVI and XVII centuries, after the fall of the Marinids, the Wattasid dynasty was established at north of the Atlas mountains and the west Sahara. The Sharif dynasties, from the Draâ valley (Saadist) and from the oasis of Tafilalet (Alaoui) called themselves descendants of Mahoma (shaky ground, they are very stricts about this) this cultures fought fot the control of the Salt routes against the Tuaregs, and they move to the north later conquering the Wattasid lands by de Saadists first and the Alaoui later, coming even to the west Algeria.


In Algeria the Hafsids, housed several moriscos from the south of Spain expelled by the christians, and fought against the spanish armies who conquered oran in 1509. In 1516 the pirate Jidr 'ibn Ya'qub (Barbarrossa), conquered Argel and Tremecen in 1518. Algeria was recognized as Ottoman province, and some Turk troops were sended to Argel to fight against the spanish . The Turks pirates attacked the Spanish navy and comercial ships, doing some incursions in the south and east of the iberian peninsula, south France, and Italy, taking part in the expulsion of the St John Knights of Rodas island. Barabarrossa defeated the spanish army of Charles I in Argel in 1541 and became a true nightmare for all the commercial fleets and ports in the west mediterranean sea.



Tunisia was ruled by the Hafsids, but Barbarrossa conquered Tunez (City, I don´t know wat is the name in english Tunisia too?) in 1535. Carlos I of spain attack Tunez this year and snatches the square to the ottomans. Tunisia became a Spanish protectorate up to 1574 when the Turks conquered it finally.

Moroccan Tribal Cavalry was gradually replaced by mounted arquebusiers. The most of battles against the Spanish armies were siege battles, but the Spanish were skirmished by the Algerian mounted troops out the walls of Argel and Tunez.


I think it´s a good begining, Nick do you want a description of the Rodas or Tripoli incursions?

Any sugestions for the army notes?


David.


PD: Territory types Agricultural, developed, desert.
PD: Working in the Caroline armies.

[rbodleyscott]

Did the armies with lots of mounted arquebusiers still have significant numbers of spearmen?

[robertthebruce]

As far I know not, in open terrain the armies has a 4-1 proportion of mounted-spearmen aprox. In sieges all the arquebusiers were dismounted after de initial skirmishing out the walls.

[rbodleyscott]

Somehow an army of Saadists appeals, though I suspect they might in fact be Masochists.

[rbodleyscott]

As far I know not, in open terrain the armies has a 4-1 proportion of mounted-spearmen aprox.

Should the spearmen minimum apply in Moroccan armies after 1540?

[robertthebruce]

The armies has not many spearmen after the spanish leave from here, maybe only to defend the camp, once the spanish went, was not necessary to keep a big units of spearmen.

The infantry was replaced by warriors as you say, but itsn´t possible to give a date, probably in the first half of XVII century.

[rbodleyscott]

Re Tunisia:

As in Algeria, the country was left in the control of the leaders of the Janissary troops sent to take over, and these ruled in de facto independence.

When? After 1574?

[nikgaukroger]

Yup.

[rbodleyscott]

Shouldn't there be an end date to Ottoman sipahis with bow, given that the list goes up to 1698?

Have you decided how 17th century Ottoman sipahis will be graded? (And would there be any in north Africa?)

Similarly, what about 17th century Ottoman Janissaries? They won't all be Arquebus, Swordsmen I am guessing. If not, their later grading needs to go into the North African list.

[nikgaukroger]

Shouldn't there be an end date to Ottoman sipahis with bow, given that the list goes up to 1698?

May actually be ebst to remove them - they're a bit speculative shall we say ...

Have you decided how 17th century Ottoman sipahis will be graded? (And would there be any in north Africa?)

Similarly, what about 17th century Ottoman Janissaries? They won't all be Arquebus, Swordsmen I am guessing. If not, their later grading needs to go into the North African list.

The Janissaries are, after the initial period of occupation, not real Janissaries any more but the descendants of the initial lot who have settled down and so on. They carried on with their traditional methods but would not, IMO, be as effective and became a rather mixed bunch. Their classification says nothing about how real Janissaries will be rated IMO.