More about knowing turn based game issues??¦

[vveedd]

We have discussed about this in different posts but just want to tell you this again in one post as some kind of summary. Why? Reason is very simple ??“ you guys have great opportunity to make great and long life game like my favorite Third Reich game, which is, by the way, made in 80??™s and people still playing it. But you must be aware about today??™s knowing issues for turn based games:
1.)AI ??“ don??™t care too much about it because nobody invent good AI so far and for me only challenge is to play against human but apparently lots of people will play singleplayer. You can try to make good AI but most important is that AI must not be bad. It is better to have not AI instead of bad AI.

2.)Multiplayer ??“ VERY important for long life game status.You must have all knowing multiplayer options (TCP/IP, hot seat, PBEM). To my opinion the best way to play turn based game for working and family men (like me) is PBEM. Because you will have enormous numbers of turns in your game (which I warn you in one of my post) TCP/IP play will be less playable so PBEM could be only way for play with other players on the net. But PBEM is not popular because of one reason and great issue ??“ reloading. As I said in my previous posts there is no knowing way to solve this problem but you can minimize it. The main problem is luck factor. In all game stages it should be at minimum or you should remove it at all if this is possible. And IT IS possible in research what is very important because otherwise it can ruin whole game. As I saw you will have semi-luck factor which is good but still, IMO you should have research concept like Civilization games has or fully automatic. I am personally no research or fully automatic supporter (in correct historical date powers get correct historical research and that??™s it) but this is only me.
Actually I have one idea (which is on my mind for a long time) but for this you must have resources (game servers, to be more precise). I call it PBEM online. It is very simple ??“ when you start your turn you first must log on to dedicated server and then you play your turn. After you finish you save your turn locally on your computer and log off. Then you send your turn to opponent. On server there will be control log file where players can see all info about turns ??“ number of turn, date and time of play (log-on) and how many times turn is loaded. Still haven??™t found any flaws in this system and reloading issue is removed permanently.

3.)Bad game concept or no concept at all ??“ diplomacy, amphibious assaults, supply rule. We also have discussed about all three.
a.)WWII game without diplomatic system IMO is game without soul and it is bad. Game with bad diplomatic system is even worse. At start you should have at least some basic diplomacy and then later you can add in expansion pack some more complex system.
b.)Amphibious transports and assaults concept look like minor stuff but from good example in SC2 game it can ruin game completely. There are numerous of questions and issues ??“ beach hexes or not, blocking tactic, range etc. IMO major issue is blocking tactics. I don??™t know what concept you will have but you must do everything what is possible to avoid it.
c.)Bad supply rule can cause one very irritating issue ??“ one enemy unit far behind enemy lines (front), without any connections with its other units, alive and kicking. It is absolutely stupid that this unit can make move and damage. If this is possible German army will not be defeated in USSR. You must be careful with this.

And that??™s it so far. If I remember something more I will add in my next post. I am sorry if I am boring you guys with this but as I said ??“ you have great chance to make great game so just want to help.

[firepowerjohan]

1) The AI is good already, but on strategic decisions it will naturally not reach a human player capacity. Though, the AI can give you a good game in France if you let it play the Allies. Since the AI will check for weak enemy units nearby, a gambling attack with some bad luck can actually mean some nearby AI units move and hit you back

2) We have TCP/IP, PBEM AND HOTSEAT already in game and working. The stuff about a dedicated server is too costy and would only be possible if we get huge sales.

3)
Supply rules and ZOC penalties are harsh in CEAW. In fact, with supply=0 -> movement=1 you wont be able to move if enemy had ZOC penalty on you and supply=0 reduce effectiveness (first by a jump due to reduced supply and then every turn).

Diplomacy is the trickiest part to balance and we have decided to make it very simple, you DOW a country it will join the enemy side fair and simple. Since you will actually take some damage attaking neutral countries in CEAW, the cost of DOW is that of your casualties. Also, neutral production is only at 50% efficiency (can be changed in the scripts) so that attakcing neutrals is not too beneficial.

Landing rules is also harsh in CEAW since you will be out of supply the turn after and slowly melt away. You need a city as supply base or a ship adjacent to your ground unit but even then the supply will be low enough to make a landing difficult.


SUMMARY:
The important is not number of features in a game but that every feature is balanced. That is why ppl are still playing Chess, Poker or other classics. We are trying to add enough complexity and decisions to avoid stereotype situations and still be able to play the game quick without to much strain for the player.

[vveedd]

Very glad to heard all this. Still, my major concern is reloading in PBEM games. I knew that server is too expensive option so can you tell me anything more about planned solutions for this issue?

[firepowerjohan]

Very glad to heard all this. Still, my major concern is reloading in PBEM games. I knew that server is too expensive option so can you tell me anything more about planned solutions for this issue?

Ppl can cheat with PBEM reloading in CEAW and as you said, only a dedicated server could prevent this.

[joe98]

SSG found a way to prevent it.

Something to do with the registry in Windows.

[SMK-at-work]

1) Landing rules is also harsh in CEAW since you will be out of supply the turn after and slowly melt away. You need a city as supply base or a ship adjacent to your ground unit but even then the supply will be low enough to make a landing difficult.

Presumably there's a tech advance that lets you build Mulberries to improve this??

[IainMcNeil]

We'll investigate cheat prevention in multiplayer, but there is only a limited amount that is possible. You'd probably have to make compromises on the results if you want to make it totally secure (seed it with the location & then it would generate teh same random number each time which is obviously bad!).

[vveedd]

Well, it is hard, I know, but don??™t be discourage. Dedicated server will be the best solution but there are others, not so effective, but still??¦ Generate same number for tech will be good step forward. My suggestion is that in the end of current player turn dice roll are made for every tech for next player. These results will be attached to current player save file and invisible for current player, of course. In that way next player will get same results every time if he decides to reload or overwrite save file with copy in mailbox (which is much more important!!!)

Actually, this second one is main problem ??“ technically this is not reloading because in this way you practically loading save file for the first time, every time . Classical reloading is easy to control with some mechanism implemented in game code. SC2 game has it.