Over-enthusiastic cataphracts

[TimW]

I've just won a game against the AI (me Parthians, the AI Selucid), in which two units of Selucid cataphracts were so eager to get at one of my cataphract units that they charged straight through four units of their own phalangites (a block of four phalanx units, 2x2 - the cataphracts started behind the phalanx and charged through to the front). Not surprisingly, the phalangites were more than a little disordered by this; the cataphracts, on the other hand, weren't disordered in the slightest by trampling through 6,000 of their own army.

Bug?

[IainMcNeil]

Yes this is as designed. Cataphracts are shock mounted and will take a test each turn when in range of teh enemy and if they fail charge them, and disrupt anyone in their path. Dont put Pikes in front of them

[batesmotel]

Yes this is as designed. Cataphracts are shock mounted and will take a test each turn when in range of teh enemy and if they fail charge them, and disrupt anyone in their path. Dont put Pikes in front of them

What you really should have said is don't put any friends they cannot interpenetrate anywhere in front of them even if they also have clear charge paths.

The anarchy charge rules are a bit overdone. I've seen cataphracts charge through friends (in this case, another cataphract with the CinC) when there was any equally open path to another target. This was in Starter Army 2 where my cataphract had broken off from one legionary on the previous Roman turn and then started my turn by charging another Roman legionary through their CinC's cataphract BG rather than just charging the same legionary it had been fighting where it had a completely unblocked path. Either the player should have a chance to voluntarily move shock BGs before they will make an anarchy charge or else they should have better AI in choosing which of the charge targets available to charge. Shock troops are enthusiastic to fight, not out right stupid or just random. The TT rules for charging without orders reflect this much better than the PC ones currently seem to, especially for undrilled troops .

Chris

[IainMcNeil]

It is something I want to look at. I wonder if we could have it that they only test for an uncontrolled charge if you attempt to move them and not in to contact.

E.g.
* There are no anarchy charges at the start of your turn.
* If the chock mounted start in a position where they need to test not to charge and you attempt to move them to a hex that is not in contact with enemy, then they test. If they pass your move is successful. If they fail, it says "No!" and they immediately charge

I'm not sure how technically challenging this would be though!

[TheGrayMouser]

I actually like it as is, adds uncertainty and forces one to have a solid plan from the beginning of battle when you have a lot of cats.

My one concern is that I dont think the game is testing anarchy correctly for Leaders

example: My Armenian army has 9 cats 3 of which are leaders, at all time a leader is adjacent to the "regulars"

However, in at least 3 games it was always the leaders that suffered anarchy each and every time....
Is maybe the game not testing the "leadership bonus" for the BG that actually contains the leader?

[Scottbot]

I like your solution/change a lot Ian. It gives the player more choice, but doesn't add to complexity or length of game. Perhaps an icon (small c?) could be added at the start of the turn to any shock troops that 'might' involuntarily charge, so that players will know which units to worry about.

[IainMcNeil]

Marking the units would be a good idea. I'm not sure if its possible or a good idea yet so just putting it out there

[TimW]

Sorry, but I consider this an area that may need a little work (though I'm not about to make a big deal of it).

I can perfectly understand highly enthusiastic and self-confident troops making make an impetuous charge, but some of the culprits I've seen do this include some of the most highly drilled/disciplined troops of the time, including those accompanied by a general. Equally, while e.g. cavalry charging through their own side's skirmish screen makes sense, ploughing through dozens of ranks of phalangites and emerging on the other side in perfect order just doesn't make any kind of sense to me - interpenetrator and interpenetrated should both suffer some disorder, surely?

It's occurred to me that my personal liking for Parthians and similar armies means I may be seeing this behaviour quite a bit more than occurs in battles between close-quarter foot based armies. What I'm suggesting would actually reduce the effectiveness of said Parthians, by the way; I've no complaint about the actions of my forces, and reducing the ability to tempt the enemy's more impetous troops to trample their own side would actually make my life harder.

How about reducing the odds of an anarchic charge if the potential charger would have to burst through well-ordered troops it can not normally interpenetrate and/or suffering cohesion penalties if it charges through heavy foot or non-light horse?

[deeter]

At the risk of being tiresome, the TT rules don'e allow uncontrolled charges if there are friendly shock troops in the way, foot don't test to charge mounted, and most troops won't test if it would put them in bad terrain (i.e MF won't charge out of broken ground to attach mounted.) Implementing thise rules for the PC would solve the problem.

Deeter