What's the point about Elephants?

[Morbio]

OK, I thought I'd ask a non-technical question (for a change).

I'm not a TT player, but I've played all of the multiplayer scenarios and a few DAG games now, and I'm struggling to see the real value of Elephants .

Now, my impression from the historical reading that I've done is that these were the 'tanks' of the ancient world and would/could devastate a line of infantry when they charged. But, whenever I've played a game, most defensive lines (Phalanx or Legions) just seen to absorb the hit and will usually survive several rounds and often kill the elephants, especially if there are 2 or more units fighting the elephant.

So, my take on elephants is not so much of a unit to break a line, but more a unit that can occupy 3 or 4 units for 3 or 4 rounds until it routs. Is this others experience too? Is this the best tactic for elephants?

Also, another observation is that elephants seem to drop cohesion levels, or rout, when not actually taking any losses, in terms of the number of elephants. I know they take a percentage decrease, so I'm assume this is the elephant taking damage, but not dieing, but this be enough for then to lose cohesion or rout?

All feedback welcome

[keithmartinsmith]

Elephants are relatively easy to hit and none need be removed to take a cohesion test. Elephants can take quite a few arrows before going down! But they hate it so take cohesion tests. See the these sections in the help index. Keith

[76mm]

Also routing elephants don't seem to cause as much havoc as I would expect--I seem to recall that the worst things about fighting with or against elephants was that once they routed, everyone, friend and foe, had better watch out because not much is worse than a terrified/pissed off elephant.

[MesaDon]

I would agree that elephants were a two edged sword. I think they should have the abilty to cause breaks in lines of infantry (units separating to let them through) along with routs causing damage to whomever gets in thier way. There was an Avalon Hill boardgame in the early 70s "Alexander the Great" where you had to roll a die to determne which direction the elephants would rout. They literally could cause damage to both sides as they went amock in straight line to one side of the board. I think it would add a bit of daring to the use of elephants.

[petergarnett]

The GMT ancient series Great Battles of History uses a similar method - random direction & if the rampaging elephant meets friend or foe it can cause hits.

[Gunjin]

The best use of elephants is to use them against enemy close order cavalry. Cavalry fighting elephants are disordered, The horsese dont like the smell or the size of them. Same aplies to camels (horses don't like the smell of them).
Ive used elephants to trample all over ememy cataphacts!

[deadtorius]

Elephants are best used against cavalry, then MF or HF as they will get a +against these and the foot will lose sword and do not count armour, or at least that is how it works on the TT so I am assuming the same here. They are a glass cannon against foot I agree, I have seen them trample battle lines and I have also watched my elephant line vaporize in 2 turns and leave a huge hole there.
They are not so good against lights and LF with javelin is the most effective anti-elephant units about. they are a risk even on the TT but when they work they are well worth having around, just not so good if they bugger off on you.

[grumblefish]

I think the main problem is that the army lists don't include the historically more effective scythed elephants. Perhaps something for the next patch, along with an ancient flame thrower, methinks.

[Paisley]

Yeah, what happened to scythed, fire-breathing elephants?

Historically, elephants were decisive (in the good sense) in very few battles in the west, and when they were it was usually when deployed against cavalry. Frontal charges by elephants against steady regulars weren't too effective. I'd say they were very unlike the tank (if the comparison is WWII), it's just a glib comparison used by historians in a hurry.

FoG is to my mind the wargame that comes closest to getting elephants right - no attempts to differentiate between different sorts, just assuming more of worse or smaller animals and fewer of the armoured behemoths.

[Amenophis]

i'm missing rules about stampeding elephants. that was an realistic danger, especially with wounded elephants and ancient documented.

[deadtorius]

Yes I would have to say FOG is the first set of ancient rules I have encountered that did away with rabid elephants stomping their own boys. Not that thats a bad thing. I guess the usual CT for seeing friends break was considered bad enough, if you really wanted to get nasty about it you could force both sides to take a CT for seeing elephants break. 1 simple die roll to cover all the horrors of jumbos stampeding in either direction and taking it out on friend or foe.
Personally I would like to keep it as is, elephants are dangerous enough to be around since they are somewhat delicate creatures prone to disappearing and causing cohesion losses on nearby friends.
but I still like to put them in my armies anyway.

[deeter]

Elephants should be forced to evade. Then they would be as dangerous to their firends as cavalry.

Deeter

[deadtorius]

Deeter you having fond memories of early beta where elephants did anarchy charges?? Think they also did break offs back then, till I pointed out the mistake