two points for a looted camp...

pomakli · Post by **pomakli** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:10 pm

Hi!

Thanks again for this expansion!

Under victory conditions there is

"two points for a looted camp"..

I think, this is new and the question is:

Should it be looted till the end of a battle?

or

is it enough during the during to assault/loot and fight on an another place?

BR

arsan · Post by **arsan** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:46 pm

Hi!

For what i saw in my last game the camp will dissapear once its looted.
To loot it it seems a unit will need to roll a 6 (for a fortified roman camp in my case) and will keep trying to loot it each turn until it rolls a six (The unit will show the Anarchy marker)
Once you roll a six it will need a couple turns to destroy/loot the camp.
So unless you are lucky, don't count with that BG for much in several turns.

When the camp is destroyed a message tells you the enemy will to fight is reduced, but i'm not sure what it means

Cheers

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:41 pm

Thansk for the posts - I had wondered how it worked.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:13 pm

If it is an unfortified camp all you have to do is move up to it and its looted, now walls or camp guards to deal with. The 2 break points is the same as the TT game for looting a camp.

keithmartinsmith · Post by **keithmartinsmith** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:47 pm

There is a long explanation on camps in the help index. Keith

arsan · Post by **arsan** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:12 pm

keithmartinsmith wrote:There is a long explanation on camps in the help index. Keith

Indeed! i just found it. But it does not mention anything about what the pop up in game message tells you when you loot a camp.
Something about the" enemy will to fight being reduced"
Is that something for real?? some penalty on moral checks?? or are just 2 points per looted camp?
Cheers

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:13 am

It refers to the loss of 2 break points

arsan · Post by **arsan** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:36 am

Ok! Thanks!

grumblefish · Post by **grumblefish** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:46 am

2 points is good and all, but perhaps it would be better if it were a percentage? I can't really see any great need in attacking the camp during a massive battle, if all it inflicts is 2 break points. Whole armies would withdraw from battle to defend their camp, but here... there's no real point.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:41 am

In the TT game you get 2 break points for losing your camp. May not sound like much but sometimes those 2 points is the difference between winning and losing.
I generally won't bother with attacking the camp unless one of my units finds itself out that way and there is nothing else around for them to deal with. Good use of light troops who have run up behind the enemy lines, they can't fight non-lights and if there are no broken to chase go for the camp

Paisley · Post by **Paisley** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:38 am

It would make some sense for it to be a percentage of army size (as in numer of units) as the moral effect is really caused by the troops worrying about their possessions. So bigger armies should perhaps suffer more - the flipside of that is that the better troops would likely have more impedimentia along (Caesar's men had at least one slave each in Gaul) and so more to worry about than some poor quality naked javelinman.

But proportional to points - yes, definitely (though I suspect it couldn't be coded - though maybe big armies could have more than one camp?

keithmartinsmith · Post by **keithmartinsmith** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:22 am

We are considering an option to make it a percentage e.g. 10% of your start break points. 2 does seem too insignificant for the cost to fortify and certainly too little in a very big game. Keith

paulcummins · Post by **paulcummins** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:41 pm

10% would be good - my 800 pt Spanish have something like 86 BGs (I wish I could get that on the table top)
who cares about losing 1

arsan · Post by **arsan** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:51 pm

Yes, i like the 10% idea too!

Paisley · Post by **Paisley** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:00 pm

I think it should be 10% (or x% anyway) of the army points, not 10% of the break points, on the grounds that expensive troops in game terms tended to be those with most to lose from looted baggage.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:02 pm

In the TT rules, the baggae camp counts as lost as soon as looting starts. This way the owner is penalized immediately even though the opposing players looters may essentially be out of play for several turns until they pass the CMT to stop looting. This seems like a better way to handle when the camp is lost for losing the attrition points rather than waiting until the looting unit is done. The owners of the baggage after all should be unhappy that it has been looted whether or not the looters stay around to party afterwards or depart immediately. As it is now, not only is 2 points not much in a big game, the player capturing the enemy camp may never even get the points if his looters never pass the CMT to stop looting.

Chris

ianiow · Post by **ianiow** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:38 pm

Is 10% enough? For a lot of HF type armies that will still be just 2pts. Thats a lot of effort for routing the equivalent of one LF.

Perhaps all unengaged friendly BG's should take a morale test upon seeing their camp looted. That would be fun!

Paisley · Post by **Paisley** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:06 pm

I don't think there are many (any?) historical cases where looting of the baggage had a big effect on army morale during the battle.

While I think 2 points is too little for most games, 10% of army points (so 4 for a 400pt game) would seem to me to be plenty.

Martin0112 · Post by **Martin0112** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:41 am

The issue here is that these 2 points were taken directly from the TT-version.
As in the TT, a normal armysize for 800 points is 12 - 15 BG's (menaing 12 to 15 attrition points), a loss of 2 attrition points will mean a loss of roughly 13 - 16 %
We have in FOG-PC much more counted BG's (as each second base from the TT-version is a full BG here) which adds up more attrition points.
So it's closer to the original by saying: A camp is worth xx % (say 15 as an average) the it's worth 2 points at all.
I agree with most of the other requsting this.

tofman04 · Post by **tofman04** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:45 pm

Hi,

I have two problems with looting camps.
First, is the completely out of control behaviour of units getting closed to enemy camp. In a MP game, two of my units after evading some enemies got closed to enemy camp and became out of control for few turns (marked with A), remaining frozen and inactive when I needed most. If I put some unit close to the camp on purpose to loot the camp I understand, but otherwise to lost some units without any control is not so nice. Anyway, in the end I won but I was a blade runner.
The second is the fact that after I looted the roman fortified camp, it disappeared from the map on the roman side but it appeared surprisingly, for me at least, near my own camp. Is this behaviour right or is an artefact / bug?

Cheers

two points for a looted camp...

two points for a looted camp...

Points should be lost when looting starts, not when done