Charging problem

SonofTosh · Post by **SonofTosh** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:12 pm

I agree that it is an anomaly that if the charge is cancelled the "chargers" can then move normally. However I do not think that is the case as the unit will have declared and logically executed a charge during the impact phase.

Where in the rules is there provision for a charge that screams to a halt half way through because it cannot get past friends?

The only thing the rules say about a charge which cannot get past friends is that "it cannot be made and is cancelled".

So I think the only logical positions are:

1. The charge can never be made. Unless of course the skirmishers decide to stand in which it can. So you can charge until they say they are evading in which case you do not which means they do not evade...... and so on in a circle until all the units involved are dizzy and form Orb.

2. The charge is legally declared, the skirmishers evade, and the charge is no longer legal.

Yes it looks silly that the skirmishers evade while the chargers do not move. I think it simulates a controlled charge to drive off the skirmishers.

You are wrong about the fragmented troops breaking. They are destroyed at the end of the phase so they are still there for the chargers to hit in the example you give. Page 100

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:34 pm

Why is this so complicated?

The charge declaration is legal, the evaders make their response move. The chargers make their charge move to the maximum distance they legally can go. Interpenetrating the LF in a charge is not legal (except when bursting through due to charging when failing a test not to charge), so the chargers end their move in contact with the rear of the friendly LF. Is this really that complicated????

Chris

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:40 pm

batesmotel wrote:Why is this so complicated?

The charge declaration is legal, the evaders make their response move. The chargers make their charge move to the maximum distance they legally can go. Interpenetrating the LF in a charge is not legal (except when bursting through due to charging when failing a test not to charge), so the chargers end their move in contact with the rear of the friendly LF. Is this really that complicated????

Chris

Now look here, stop being sensible about this, you'll bring internet forums into disrepute

Of course what you suggest is how people actually play this (in my experience, as I have seen similar things) to avoid grossly stupid situations

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:46 pm

Just to elaborate, thinking with umpire hat on, I think that if a BG can charge to the point an evading enemy would have been at (taking into account the p54 bit) then I am happy that the charge can take place. The p54 bit seem to me to be clearly looking at cases where there are friends are between the chargers and their target and not where friends are beyond the target.

SonofTosh · Post by **SonofTosh** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:14 am

Thanks for the clarification Nik. Charging as far as they can does seem the most pragmatic solution. Unfortunately I suspect this will continue to be a problem for players as the rules do not cover the situation.

I have to say this is the first hole I have found in the rules, and I mean that as a compliment.

John

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:11 pm

SonofTosh wrote:Thanks for the clarification Nik. Charging as far as they can does seem the most pragmatic solution. Unfortunately I suspect this will continue to be a problem for players as the rules do not cover the situation.

Only if they choose to let it be a problem - as I mentioned I have seen pretty much this situation a few times and it has not been an issue.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:57 am

kevinj wrote:I think Graham and Hammy have this nailed, the rule on P54 covers BGs who are blocked by friends when their charge is declared, not those who are only blocked when their target evades. The extension of regarding the charge as cancelled if the chargers cannot complete their move in those circumstances is that not only have the evaders responded to a charge that didn't happen, the chargers would then be able to do a normal move.

I don't think so. Follow the sequence of play.
Declare Charges: "Charge the LH!" The charge is legal.
Make evade moves: The LH BG is subject to a legal charge so evades.
Make charge moves: The LH has evaded, there are no other enemy in the charger's path. Charger rolls a VMD. Depending on the path the evader took, it might be possible to wheel the charging BG enough to be able to clear the friendlies after reducing frontage. Otherwise, if this results in his encountering the friendly LF BG which cannot be avoided by dropping back bases to reduce frontage by one basewidth, the charge is cancelled.
This topic has come up before regarding multiple charges at the same target. If I recall correctly, in order for a charge to be declared, it must be able to reach a legal target. If a declared charge is blocked by friends at the point when the charge is to be resolved it is cancelled.
A more embarrassing problem crops up when evaders expose a BG which cannot be legally contacted. Unless one reads the line "Other bases...may contact the enemy in other ways..., but will not be eligible to fight in the impact phase." to allow them to contact the flank, but not fight in the Impact phase. They would not count as being in close combat for conforming etc either.