The Spanish Gambit AAR (The War is Over.)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 »

Happycat wrote:Congratulations Ronnie on a very well played game. This went right down to the last turn, although I could see about three or four turns back that the Russians were not going to get to Berlin in time, unless you made a mistake. You didn't, and a victory is your reward :)
Thank you too. I really enjoyed our game too. We are equally matched and our games do seem to go down to the end.
Happycat wrote:I just finished reading the AAR; what an epic! Entertaining, informative and well presented. Thank you for doing it.
You're welcome. You got it started with your entertaining write-ups in our emails.
Happycat wrote:It was interesting for me to now see what your thinking was with regard to the Med strategy. Frankly, I thought it was a mistake on your part, and I also thought you concentrated too much on the Russian convoys, thus letting the British back into the game. However, it became clear to me after awhile that the Russian research and building was lagging, thanks to your efforts against the Murmansk convoys. And despite the embarrassment of riches that the British were enjoying, in the end it did not help as much as I had hoped for.
Believe me in 1942 and 1943 I thought this strategy was a mistake too. In 1943 I thought I'd be lucky to make it to 1945.
supermax
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Post by supermax »

Hey Ronnie, great AAR, you finally resisted to the end!

I think that the "close the med" strategy works a lot better in World in Flames than CEAW...

But then again this strategy shoud imply speed as it utmost prioriy. I think the the Middle East has to be cleared up before the Russians ad American get into the war.

So its either you do it or dont, from what i was able to learn from your AAR. I have my own idea on how i would do it, i might try it in a subsequent game. I should be available to play more games once i am done with Pangen, since right our CEAW the game is not upgraded to 1.02. It s a very interesting strategy that you tried there, it merits another try.

Congrats again for your victory in holding Berlin.
rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 »

Happycat wrote:
rkr1958 wrote:You and Borger (and Supermax and Dave) are in the upper echelon of GS players. While I'm certainly not in the bottom I'm not up there with you guys. One day though I hope to beat you or Borger. And on that day I know that I've arrived. :D
Well I'm happy to see that I am not the only one who has trouble with Joe and Borger :lol:
Amen to that!!!
Happycat wrote:It's interesting to see how quickly you have increased your capabilities with CEAW/GS however. I remember that our first couple of games, way back when, were victories for me. I think they were my last against you however. While our games are frequently close, and always entertaining, I would be feeling like I have "arrived" (or returned, perhaps) if I could get beat you one of these days :)
I have come a long way thanks to the mentoring that you and Borger have given me and the patience that you two have shown me since joining the design team back in June 2008. And, I'm really grateful for the mercy that you took on me in those early days . Like I've posted before I learned CEaW from playing against the AI and when I started playing against you two I found out very quickly that things that work against the AI will get you killed against human opponents. Even after almost 2-years of playing I'm still learning and still appreciate the feedback and tips that you and Borger provide.
rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 »

supermax wrote:Hey Ronnie, great AAR, you finally resisted to the end!
Thanks.
supermax wrote:I think that the "close the med" strategy works a lot better in World in Flames than CEAW...

But then again this strategy shoud imply speed as it utmost prioriy. I think the the Middle East has to be cleared up before the Russians ad American get into the war.
It's also probably better suited to a player of your aggressiveness and skill. In retrospect, my campaign in Spain and the drive to capture Gibraltar should have been complimented with aggressive action against the allied forces in Egypt. Something like a flanking invasion east of the Suez, or something similar, would be necessary to close the Med much more quickly than I was able to.
supermax wrote:So its either you do it or dont, from what i was able to learn from your AAR. I have my own idea on how i would do it, i might try it in a subsequent game. I should be available to play more games once i am done with Pangen, since right our CEAW the game is not upgraded to 1.02. It s a very interesting strategy that you tried there, it merits another try.
I would definitely like to see how it should be implemented and look forward to see how you pull it off. I guess it's one of those strategies like Sea Lion where if your opponent has defended strongly against it then you change strategies and go after him in another way where he's weaker and not expecting it.
supermax wrote:Congrats again for your victory in holding Berlin.
Thanks again.
supermax
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Post by supermax »

I think this strategy definitly needs a landing in the Jerusalem sector or in Syria proper. Perhaps added with a landing in between Alexandria and the British desert force.

But it could represent a lot of difficulties with the presense of the british fleet, so Greece and Crete would probaly have to be taken first.
Clark
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Post by Clark »

supermax wrote:I think this strategy definitly needs a landing in the Jerusalem sector or in Syria proper. Perhaps added with a landing in between Alexandria and the British desert force.

But it could represent a lot of difficulties with the presense of the british fleet, so Greece and Crete would probaly have to be taken first.
Didn't you counsel Ronnie to land near Jerusalem in this AAR?
Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg »

I had belief in Ronnie all along and felt that he would just make it to the end. Congrats for defending so well so you could be victorious. :)

I think that the Spanish gambit strategy for the German is a very risky one. Taking Spain is not difficult and maybe not even Gibraltar. But holding it requires quite a bit of units. In my game against MrPlow I lost Spain and noticed that he actually helped he that he had Spain. Quite a lot of partisans appeared and they moved to capture some hexes. These vacated hexes can be used as airbases for the British. So could send a tac or strat bomber directly from Britain to Spain and then to Sardinia or northern Africa. So no need to risk sending bombers to the med via transports. MrPlow lost Italy earlier because I could do this.

Ronnie succeeded with the Spanish gambit because Jim decided to defend near Gibraltar and lost several units. Then he invaded Portugal and lost even more units. I think the best strategy for the Allies is to ony send air units to Spain and the land units from Britain to Egypt. The British air units can then force the Germans to send their fighters to Spain instead of using them as escorts for bombing London. Then you can withdraw the fighters to Spanish Morocco and further to Egypt when Gibraltar is about to lose.

I think the main task for the British before Barbarossa is to SAVE the Royal Navy. It's your only weapon for quite some time. That means you need to keep them away from Luftwaffe bombardments after France falls and you must keep your entire Atlantic navy in one big group so you can deal with the subs if they attack. That means many unescorted convoys, but better let the subs kill them than lose CV's and BB's one by one. You need the navy to escort the units from Britain to Egypt.

I think the British can keep Egypt for quite some time if they defend near El Alamein. When you see Crete full of Luftwaffe units then you retreat out of the air range and move across the Suez if you have to. The point is to never allow the Axis to kill your units in Egypt. Rail them to Iraq if you have to and wait for the Axis to move there. It takes quite a lot of turns and that means you have time to reinforce with more fighters, maybe a tac bomber, Monty and some land units. The British should delay the Axis so much so the Axis engagement here will interfere with the Barbarossa buildup. Life becomes much easier once the Axis bombers fly to eastern Europe for Barbarossa.

Supermax would never have taken Canada in the game against Panzergeneral if the British had saved the Royal Navy.

Even if the Spanish gambit is risky I think it's definitely worth trying against not so experneiced opponents. I would probably not have dared this strategy against Joe or Supermax. Or maybe I would just to surprise them :)
PanzerGeneral
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Post by PanzerGeneral »

Thanks for a very enjoyable AAR. Congratulations on a very close victory!
rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 »

PanzerGeneral wrote:Thanks for a very enjoyable AAR. Congratulations on a very close victory!
Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to read it. Also, I'm enjoying your AAR immensely.
rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 »

Turn 105. May, 12, 1945.

Well when you thought this AAR was over it isn't. If you followed it you know that the game ended unexpectedly one turn early on April 23, 1945 (turn 104). It turns out that this premature ending was due to a rounding error that accumulated over time and essentially caused the 1939 scenario to terminate one turn too early. The game terminated on the normal turn for the other scenarios but it was just in this longer scenario that the bug appeared. This type of bug is hard to catch because you have to play the 1939 scenario all the way to end. So to fully test out this fix Jim and I are playing this game to the bitter end to make sure that it ends properly. It should end at the conclusion of Jim's turn (i.e., allied turn 105).

By the way, the following screen shots show my situation and I don't expect the final outcome to change.

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rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 »

Game Over. June 1, 1945.

Phew ... same result and this helps verify that the 1939 scenario ends on the correct date. Even though the screen below shows June 1, 1945 the game ended at the conclusion of the allied May 12, 1945 turn. As seems well.

Image

By the way contrast this victory screen with the one we got before. Especially check out the date.

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