Overlaps

[lawrenceg]

I think that the most logical course of action is that my unit's left corner stays embedded in my opponent's unit's left side edge, (it doesn't count as a flank charge as we know), we fight the melee phase as if we both had our left hand bases fighting frontally against each other, with one base overlap either side to add to that and then whoever gets the chance to conform first does so when they are the active player.

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding you, this seems to be what you guys are saying??? (It still isn't what the rules say IMO but it makes perfect sense to me.)

That is what we are saying and IMO it is what the rules say.

[AlanYork]

Fantastic!!! One query topic down, two to go!!!!

[deadtorius]

that also clears up my how many dice question nicely, two answers in one things are looking up

[AlanYork]

that also clears up my how many dice question nicely, two answers in one things are looking up

Yes I must say this forum is a great resource and people are very generous with their help. If only I can get some answers on my final batch of queries ("Flank marches again....Aaaargh!!!") that'll be me pretty much sorted out. I'll check again tomorrow, see if I've got any responses.

[Ghaznavid]

Dunno, I wonder how this stay with the corner int he flank thingy is supposed to work as soon as I decide to expand on that flank (since we fight as if aligned and since he is most likely overlapping me on that side I'm permitted to do so after all). In some cases it might be possible to create a 'staggered back' file (although at this point it becomes totally silly looking), but depending on the angle, other troops and terrain that will not always be possible. So what then?

[gozerius]

Perhaps I was reading too much into the last sentence in the bullet about conforming when in contact with a flank when not a flank charge. "This still applies even if conforming is not possible." Since you cannot do the impossible, I assumed that something other than conforming must still be done. .

IMO

"This still applies even if conforming is not possible."

is referring to

"the enemy battle group is not fighting the enemy in 2 directions inthe melee phase."

That works for me. Keeps things simple and consistent.

[gozerius]

Dunno, I wonder how this stay with the corner int he flank thingy is supposed to work as soon as I decide to expand on that flank (since we fight as if aligned and since he is most likely overlapping me on that side I'm permitted to do so after all). In some cases it might be possible to create a 'staggered back' file (although at this point it becomes totally silly looking), but depending on the angle, other troops and terrain that will not always be possible. So what then?

Same as any other time you don't have space to expand. You don't.
On the other hand, if feeding more bases is possible, it changes the dynamics of the fight. The fed in bases would be in front of the file which hit the original side of the defending BG and touching the adjacent base. This would make them the new front edge when determining who fights whom.

[Ghaznavid]

Same as any other time you don't have space to expand. You don't.
On the other hand, if feeding more bases is possible, it changes the dynamics of the fight. The fed in bases would be in front of the file which hit the original side of the defending BG and touching the adjacent base. This would make them the new front edge when determining who fights whom.

Now that would reward charges at funny angles that hit the flank of enemy BGs despite it not being a legal flank charge. In other words it will introduce geometric tricks into FoG. You really don't want to go down that path me thinks.

[Ghaznavid]

Same as any other time you don't have space to expand. You don't.
On the other hand, if feeding more bases is possible, it changes the dynamics of the fight. The fed in bases would be in front of the file which hit the original side of the defending BG and touching the adjacent base. This would make them the new front edge when determining who fights whom.

Now that would reward charges at funny angles that hit the flank of enemy BGs despite it not being a legal flank charge. In other words it will introduce geometric tricks into FoG. You really don't want to go down that path me thinks.

[gozerius]

In spite of the attempts by the authors to eliminate funny geometrical tricks, they are nearly impossible to eliminate entirely. See the thread about the interpenetration wormhole. The best we can do is work within the rules in place. The whole side edge contact when not counting as a flank charge conforming contortions scenario is the authors' admitted best attempt to keep things fair. And they admit it's not perfect. So we live with it.

I don't see how that rewards the charger, if anything,the defender gets to realign earlier than normal, which he will have to do during his next maneuver phase anyway. Of course since feeding more bases is voluntary, he could wait until the he has to conform to realign the entire BG in a more favorable formation.