spartan army

[sdaddino]

this is my army list...
any suggestions about spartan army?
is it this list correct?

Total point: 800
Troop CinC 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35

HF Armoured Average Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 10 60
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - 6 5 30
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24

[madaxeman]

Not sure on legality, however it has too many support troops and too few hoplites - opponents dont have to fight the spartiates to beat the army.

A mix of spartiates and normal hoplites is best IMO, with light troops only there to soak up spare points

[pease1]

6-packs of superior offensive spears....I wouldn't want to fight against that army...I'd say you have a decent start there.

I don't have the army lists with me here, but if you can go with a little less LF and trade it for some MF (or more HF!) that might be nice. Any time I think of fighting against a Spartan army all I think is 'good God, how many spears do I have to wade through this time'. Your army doesn't quite make me think that.

LF are quicker to paint, but when it comes to winning....you'll want more crunchies.

[sdaddino]

Not sure on legality, however it has too many support troops and too few hoplites - opponents dont have to fight the spartiates to beat the army.

A mix of spartiates and normal hoplites is best IMO, with light troops only there to soak up spare points

I think 5 hf + 1 could be better to win
LH are used to stop a flank of my opponent and if there are some LH with bow I can try to defeat them
LF are used to place them before in the start up phase and to use them agains other Lf or to fire with bow and sling and jav and light spear to defeat other LF
this evening I'll test my army

[madaxeman]

Not sure on legality, however it has too many support troops and too few hoplites - opponents dont have to fight the spartiates to beat the army.

A mix of spartiates and normal hoplites is best IMO, with light troops only there to soak up spare points

I think 5 hf + 1 could be better to win
LH are used to stop a flank of my opponent and if there are some LH with bow I can try to defeat them
LF are used to place them before in the start up phase and to use them agains other Lf or to fire with bow and sling and jav and light spear to defeat other LF
this evening I'll test my army

LH with JLS are not as good as the LH with Bw & Sw you will probably face - that's why they cost less

You will be moving first almost always, and it will probably be obvious where your spartans will go anyway, so placing LF first doesn't really gain you much more than perhaps 3MUs extra move in the Spartans 2nd turn. But each LF unit risked and killed is an expensive Spartiate unit that never gets to fight.

[philqw78]

You have 6 BG of Hoplites. 8 BG of lights. I would completely ignore your hoplites and kill the rest. An easy win. To defeat your army I do not have to defeat any Spartans

[expendablecinc]

you must have 12 average drilled spartan perikoi if you have a spartan CinC. You only have six.
I suggest taking the thracians as a decent support/rear support troop.

You cannot have average javelinmen in a spartan army only poor.

You cannot have light horse in a spartan armoured army only average cav w LtSp

If you are taking an TC as a CinC you might like to think about taking allies (even spartan allies) to save points. The CinC isnt going to ad dmuch to them anyway.

this is my army list...
any suggestions about spartan army?
is it this list correct?

Total point: 800
Troop CinC 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35

HF Armoured Average Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 10 60
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - 6 5 30
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24

[expendablecinc]

I am painting my last BG of a spartan army that may see the table in a month or so.

The list is initially geared towards :

2 BG of six superior spartans
2 BG of six average spartans
4 Bg of six average hoplites
2 bg of poor javelinmen
8 thracians
6 LF archers
6 LF slingers

4 TCs (inc 2 allies)

799 points

[marioslaz]

Your army list is wrong.
Armoured hoplites can be used only before 460 BC. Non Thessalians' armies before 450 BC can have just 6 bases of cav and nothing LH. After 450 BC you can have 12 bases of cavalry, but not all LH, which is limited to 6 bases. You cannot have LF Average with javs, but only Poor.
If you want to use LH, I suggest you get a Thessalians' contingent.

[sdaddino]

Your army list is wrong.
Armoured hoplites can be used only before 460 BC. Non Thessalians' armies before 450 BC can have just 6 bases of cav and nothing LH. After 450 BC you can have 12 bases of cavalry, but not all LH, which is limited to 6 bases. You cannot have LF Average with javs, but only Poor.
If you want to use LH, I suggest you get a Thessalians' contingent.

yes I see now
but If I want to make spartan army so I can have
at least 2 unit of hf average of 6 bases
now I can have untill 36 bases of hf superior
18 bases of LF jav light spear poor or average
right?

[sdaddino]

so my army should be like this:
total point: 800
Troop CinC 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35

HF Armoured Average Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 10 60
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
CV Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4 13 52
CV Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4 13 52
LF Unprotected Poor Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 2 12
LF Unprotected Poor Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 2 12
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - 6 5 30
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24

[sdaddino]

so my army should be like this:
total point: 800
Troop CinC 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35

HF Armoured Average Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 10 60
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
CV Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4 13 52
CV Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4 13 52
LF Unprotected Poor Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 2 12
LF Unprotected Poor Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 2 12
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - 6 5 30
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24

or this is second list:
total point 798
Troop CinC 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35
Troop Sub 1 35

HF Armoured Average Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 10 60
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive Spearmen - 6 13 78
LH Unprotected Average Drilled Javelins light spear - 4 7 28
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24
LF Unprotected Poor Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 2 12
LF Unprotected Poor Drilled Javelins Light Spear - 6 2 12
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - 6 5 30
LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - - 6 4 24
but here I don't have enough Cav or Lh to protect my flank

[sdaddino]

I see..I have at least 2 x 6 hf average...so also my last army list is wrong
rebuild it

[expendablecinc]

Your army list is wrong.
Armoured hoplites can be used only before 460 BC. Non Thessalians' armies before 450 BC can have just 6 bases of cav and nothing LH. After 450 BC you can have 12 bases of cavalry, but not all LH, which is limited to 6 bases. You cannot have LF Average with javs, but only Poor.
If you want to use LH, I suggest you get a Thessalians' contingent.

yes I see now
but If I want to make spartan army so I can have
at least 2 unit of hf average of 6 bases
now I can have untill 36 bases of hf superior
18 bases of LF jav light spear poor or average
right?

LF javelinmen must be poor (and max of 18)
you must have at least 12 bases of hf average drilled
you can have up to 36 bases of superior drilled HF (although i wouldnt recomend it)

[Polkovnik]

so my army should be like this:
total point: 800

LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 7 28
CV Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4 13 52
CV Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4 13 52

You can't have LH and you can only have a max of 6 cavalry.

If you want LH you need a Thessalian Ally.

You need to understand how the lists work before trying to work out an army list. Read the list notes carefully and look at the second column in the list (where it specifies dates and what Thessalians and non-Thessalians can have). A Spartan army is Non-Thessalian (obviously otherwise it would be Thessalian, not Spartan )

[Polkovnik]

But here I don't have enough Cav or Lh to protect my flank

Why do you need them ? Try to get some terrain down and get a BG of Thracians in it. You can nearly cover the table with armoured spear anyway, so I wouldn't worry about flanks too much.
A couple of Bgs of cavalry or LH would just be a target for enemy cavalry anyway.

[pease1]

If you couldn't eat your meat, how could you have any pudding?
How can you have pudding if you didn't eat your meat?

The meat of this army is the heavies. If all you have is heavies, your enemy will have to fight them.

[nikgaukroger]

Pink Floyd fan I see

[SirGarnet]

Why do you need them ? Try to get some terrain down and get a BG of Thracians in it. You can nearly cover the table with armoured spear anyway, so I wouldn't worry about flanks too much.
A couple of Bgs of cavalry or LH would just be a target for enemy cavalry anyway.

Agreed. What worked well for the Spartans against me was an impenetrable spear phalanx (a Spartan BG finally goes fragmented against my elites, hurrah, bolster back to steady, boo) with one flank covered by conveniently located terrain held by Thracians that delayed my medium foot sweep for too long and the other secured by the second line in rear support/flank cover at the end and terrain positioned so that I couldn't sneak my horse back (and wasn't willing to charge).

Spartans are among those best able to fight in 6s 3-wide, but any base loss opens up a serious weak spot. 8 bases 3 wide is very solid, good at the end of the line for resistance to shooting and loss absorption and good for a TC to spearhead for a breakthrough in the middle.

Your list is not as daunting. Had those Spartans had your list I would have pinned them with the flank move through the woods, the Helots would have been driven back behind the line, and the Cav would have had nothing useful to do - being Average they can't even provide useful rear support for the line of battle.

Just some thoughts.

[ethan]

The cavalry is most useful as rear support for average hoplites taken the bulk out the army and for running down routers/sprinting for the enemy camp IMO.