Alarmingly ignorant questions about citadel paints

JackfromVancouver · Post by **JackfromVancouver** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:39 pm

Evening all I hope this post finds you well, the current weather situation in Southwest Canada is suprisingly mild and sunny, as such we shall celebrate that with dark beer.

Anyway I am almost done painting up my first FOG unit, all that remains is the 3 chaps of the command section (ie: Officer, Standard Bearer and Musician) and then base them (after finally deciding to make them either Poeni medium foot or heavy foot citizen hoplites/african spearmen, tough one).

However I am rather tempted to use a bit of ink on these guys and was wondering how well it would work on such a small scale, anybody on here use these paints before and if so would they also recommend inks? My fears are that the ink will be too runny and will spread all over such a small model.

Am I paranoid?
Crazy?

Well yes, but that seems unrelated to this question, so I figured I would post on here and see what all of you chaps think.

Cheers Jack

JackfromVancouver · Post by **JackfromVancouver** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:49 pm

Will try and take some pics when I get my hands on a Camera that can focus small enough to render even the most blatant details at this scale. My only camera right now is my cellphone or my malfunctioning webcam.

Jack

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:12 pm

I personally would use wood varnish all over, but I'm not a very good painter and it covers up a lot of my inadequacies. I know guys who use inks and about 4 different shades of the same colour on 15's, but they are good (Painters at least)

JackfromVancouver · Post by **JackfromVancouver** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:39 pm

Cool thanks for the fast reply Phil.

Ok well lets assume that my painting skills are at the lower end of medium, I am not mixing colours and such, but wood varnish? Really? Wood varnish?

I had to reread that to make sure I was reading that right.

Ok well...... what kind and colour of wood varnish? Does it also protect the minis? Will it have negative results when being applied to the citadel colours?

Hmmmm........ definately something to consider.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:54 am

You are in the colonies so I will try and explain as simply as possible.

Antique pine satin wood stain from the local DIY chain. Thick brush to put it on. Dry the brush. Wipe excess off. Easy. A bit like that army painter shading dip stuff.

It is like putting a layer of varnish on the figures, so looks glossy to some. But I don't think so. Its protective and shades the figure well enabling very fast painting of armies/BG

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:02 am

If you want more information and pictures of figures painted using this method, try searching for threads on the "dip" or "miracle dip" on TMP.

Derdertkd95 · Post by **Derdertkd95** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:50 am

Jack,
Something I use that I've found to be great for shading and emphasizing small creases and folds in clothing as well as crevices in skin is The Army Painter quickshades. I've used this on my Macedonians and it added a whole new dimension to the rather simply painted men of Alexander. It is also extremely easy to use and works well with a large quantity of men. heres the website:http://www.thearmypainter.com/product_p ... Quickshade

D

benos · Post by **benos** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:06 am

i've not been as keen on army painter dip, at least in15mm, for 28's i think it is great. I always use inks on 15's but i have the older citadel inks . Not sure the newer ones are as good. Less pigment so to my mind too subtle a shade. However i do paint a darkish style so the deep shades fit best.
I have been told newton and winsor make good inks too.
Ben

chubooga · Post by **chubooga** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:29 am

Any acrylic inks mate... all do the job. Personally I keep away from anything with GW label on, tends to be overpriced. Also keep away from armypainter as wood varnish does the same job for a fraction of the price.

If your not happy with the ink straight from the jar, use paint of a suitable colour to deepen its pigment, or use water / floor polish to 'thin' it out so it gets into cracks and crevices without overly discolouring the main colours.

Hope this helps

jon

fredrik · Post by **fredrik** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:01 am

I would say it depends very much on your painting style. Personally I'm not a huge fan of either inking or dipping, in my opinion it darkens the figures too much and obscures the details.

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:58 am

Un-inked cavalry

Same cavalry with an all-over covering of Windsor & Newton peat brown ink (from any art shop)

I'd usually then matt varnish the whole lot - but it;s been snowing or raining recently so I cant get outside to do it!

list_lurker · Post by **list_lurker** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:07 am

Any acrylic inks mate... all do the job. Personally I keep away from anything with GW label on, tends to be overpriced. Also keep away from armypainter as wood varnish does the same job for a fraction of the price

Just to play devils advocate for a moment. I've spent a lot of time using army painter, inks and all all sorts.

IMHO to best 'simple'... from availabilty, effect and consequence maybe one of the GW new washes.

Army painter can be a beast - as can be any spirit based varnish with pigment (woodstain). All relying on consistancy and applications. All leave a glossy sheen than can be hard to dull down. Then.. you have to clean up!

Acrylic inks are probabably shellac based. They are too dark in their pure form - which means that you need to thin. Depends on the water in your area you make get 'reaction' with the impurities/limescale in the water... leaving to drying with a 'tide mark'. Also you need to be careful about how you varnish afterwards. Some laquers will strip the ink.

The GW inks are similar the AP , except water based (ie pigment in a varnish solution). They dry matt, and are the right consistancy. Bangs for buck I'd say it would be up there. If you don't want a lot of hassle then I would say try them

I would recommend Devlan mud as a good all rounder.

ta

Simon

mellis1644 · Post by **mellis1644** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:34 pm

list_lurker wrote:
The GW inks are similar the AP , except water based (ie pigment in a varnish solution). They dry matt, and are the right consistancy. Bangs for buck I'd say it would be up there. If you don't want a lot of hassle then I would say try them

I would recommend Devlan mud as a good all rounder.

ta

Simon

I'm no expert painter and I agree the GW paints are not the cheapest possible option out there but they are readily available and tend to be consistent in pigmentation and color. There are many alternatives but these do work as well as many others. I use them and other paints in combination. I can endorse that use of the new washes GW have, especially the various 'browns' and black work well for 15mm painting.

You have to be a little careful not to put too much of any ink/wash on smaller figs to ensure that you do not wash out all the details (and that's the case for all washes/inks), but other than that it works well and can be very effective.

Mark

aventine · Post by **aventine** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:51 pm

Reference GW ink wash.

I have used the black wash on all my bronze and love the results. I use the flesh wash on a light flesh base for face and hands. GW stuff is easy to use and gives a reasonable finish quicky. I use them on both 15mm and 28mm.

I bought the full set but have not found a use for most of them. I would stick to the "mud", "black" and "flesh" (sorry can't recall the silly names they have given them).

Cheers
Keith

bertalucci · Post by **bertalucci** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Due to dodgy eyesight

brought on by old age I turned to ink wash three or so years ago.
I now use on all my figures from 15mm Ancients to huge Monsters

Flesh, Brown, Chestnut, Black, Red, Yellow are my standard colours
Green has its uses but be careful
Never really been happy with the blue (black on blue works the best)

I hated painting horses (boring) but its real easy.
Brown Horse - base coat light brown or sand or anything similar, brown or chestnut wash - job done bar the highlights.
Black horse - dark grey or black base, black wash - done
Grey horse - off white base, black wash (cut down with water) dry brush white (then paint the tack)
I now love horse armies, especially Mongol Hordes

Don't mess about slap on the base colours, let them dry. Slap on a range of inks, let them dry. Do the highlights.
Experiment, Brown on a red base looks great, and cos you are not spending hours painting details that no one will ever notice you have time to experiment.

Don't forget you can mix the inks - flesh and yellow on an off white base gives a great Horn/Bone effect.
Red ink on a dead flesh green base is suitably yeuchy (for monsters and other non-historical things)

Yes they are a bit shiney but so are well groomed horses, metals, leather etc etc.
Where I want a flatter finish I use a satin varnish.

Nuff said - I'm a fan

Disclaimer - This is only my opinion and I cannot be sued for any breach of copyright or damage caused

JackfromVancouver · Post by **JackfromVancouver** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:16 pm

Sorry about the delayed response, I work a fairly physical job and have been getting weird hours of late, so I have been too beat to respond until now.

@ Phil: You are in the colonies so I will try and explain as simply as possible. Wink

?!?!?!?!?!

- Dude I am from Canada, our public school system rules, you don't have to dumb anything down for me. I am able to converse in a manner as eloquent as you wish. And since it would seem your English, I must humbly suggest you people hire some city workers to pressure wash your sidewalks and put up some garbage cans. Say whatever you like, I spent 6 months in your country and have travelled the world, clean up your damn streets your embarrassing the entire Commonwealth.

Ok onto the more general comments.

At this scale (15mm) I think that dipping the entire mini in varnish or "dip" would be painting in too broad a stroke. I would prefer to do their faces, beards, hair and bare limbs in a brown ink and maybe slap some red ink on their tunics. My biggest concern was the inks running over the area I intended to shade. And as per Benos' comment I only have the old inks and since I am unsure of their age and condition and very sure that I can not replenish them if they runout it seems likely that I will be picking up some new ones instead. Likely the flesh one and Devlan mud as per the above advice.

Thanks for the comments all, I appreciate it. I will attempt to charm one of my friends into bringing a digital camera next time they come over for Hockey related "social" drinking, let you know how it turns out.

Do take care.

Jack

Derdertkd95 · Post by **Derdertkd95** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:22 pm

AMERICA!!!!!!!

JackfromVancouver · Post by **JackfromVancouver** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:28 pm

Canada !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:24 am

list_lurker wrote:Army painter can be a beast - as can be any spirit based varnish with pigment (woodstain). All relying on consistancy and applications. All leave a glossy sheen than can be hard to dull down. Then.. you have to clean up!

I buy these packs of super cheap (like 10 for $2) brushes at a hobby shop which I used for applying the Army Painter stuff (I don't like the "dip" method) and jsut throw them away after each use.

These are also very nice for drybrushing as the bristles are quite stiff (essentially just thin plastic).

Derdertkd95 · Post by **Derdertkd95** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:51 am

ethan wrote:
I buy these packs of super cheap (like 10 for $2) brushes at a hobby shop which I used for applying the Army Painter stuff (I don't like the "dip" method) and jsut throw them away after each use.

agreed, dipping is much too excessive

Alarmingly ignorant questions about citadel paints

Alarmingly ignorant questions about citadel paints

Inks