AAR – PanzerGeneral vs Supermax - war is over

[Clark]

Remember that you have to build for the Americans now so you can liberate Canada asap. What you need most of all would be more fighters and some tac bombers to really hurt the Axis. You need to liberate Halifax and Fredericton to give the British a chance to build new naval units again. Some more US land units never hurts to have as well. But don't forget to build labs and more naval units. DD's would be nice to have to stop the sub menace, but then you should try to have 2 US naval labs and focus on ASW to get the extra techs for ASW. That can really be damaging to his subs if he uses them to
protect the German forces from shore bombardment.

The US navy is weak so you also need more BB's and maybe a CV as well. You can't manage all till November so the main priority should be to have the firepower to deal with Supermax'es forces in Canada. Make sure you build fighters so you have more fighters than him. Then tac bombers will be great so you can soften up the targets. Make sure you have enough naval units so you can block both Fredericton and Halifax from all hexsides. This means
Supermax can't withdraw any units from Canada and they will be destroyed.

He has one chance only and that is to take out Ottawa before USA joins the Allies. If you can prevent that then his forces will be eliminated. Remember that he can't withdraw his air units back to Europe if you block the ports. He can try to escape to islands, but you can always find them and attack with your fighters and CV's.

Supermax will probably block your landing hexes with air units so you can't cut off his supply. But at least he then can't use the air units to bombard Ottawa. If you can land adjacent to these air units then you can attack his air units before his land forces arrive to kill your land units. The Luftwaffe is the most dangerus opponent because these units can soften up all targets he attacks. The Royal Navy will deal with the Kriegsmarine once the Luftwaffe is less of a danger.

Question - Am I correct in saying that if the UK is still in the war, and the US captures Halifax, it is liberated and its PP's go toward UK production?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I'm not sure about the production, more important is to get control of the port city so Britain can place new naval units.

I will have to test what happens to liberated cities. Will they get back to the original owner or to the liberator.

Edit: I just checked. The ownership of the hexes goes back to the original owner and not the liberator. This means that Panzergeneral can place reinforcements again in Halifax when it's liberated. It doesn't matter if it's liberated by US or UK forces. But if Ottawa falls so UK surrenders then it's too late. So he should do whatever he can to stop that from happening.

[PanzerGeneral]

14. March 1941, The Royal navy engages the Kriegsmarine
Spring has arrived.


The allied scientists produce some results.


England is being occupied hex by hex.


The 8th army advances towards Benghazi.


The Royal navy engages the Kriegsmarine in an attempt to inflict as much damage as possible. My CV and a BB engages a uboat which has only 3 steps left after my attacks.


Supermax has cut of my southern entry point into the bay with a DD. It is attacked by a BB and suffers heavy damage. The rest of the fleet will try to enter the bay from the north. My sub redeploys in order to hide and perform another surprise attack. I expect heavy air counter attacks next turn from Supermax.

The defense of Ottawa stands firm. Supermax cause some damage but units are repaired and I buy another garrison.

My RAF strategic bomber has reached the shores of Canada and will land next turn.


Bulgaria joins the axis cause.

[rkr1958]

PanzerGeneral,

Well your game with Supermax has directly influenced changes to GS in v1.02 so that the axis will probably never again invade Canada; especially in 1940. I know this isn't much consolation to you in this game; but it's games like this that help us better tweak and make the GS expansion more historically realistic. Thanks again for the game and AAR.

For GS v1.02 change log, see viewtopic.php?p=121696#121696

[PanzerGeneral]

PanzerGeneral,

Well your game with Supermax has directly influenced changes to GS in v1.02 so that the axis will probably never again invade Canada; especially in 1940. I know this isn't much consolation to you in this game; but it's games like this that help us better tweak and make the GS expansion more historically realistic. Thanks again for the game and AAR.

For GS v1.02 change log, see viewtopic.php?p=121696#121696

I am glad I can contribute to improving the GS mod. I like your rule changes regarding an eventual axis campaign against Britain/Canada on the American continent.

Although it won't help me, it is still quite fun to play the British. Can I manage to save them from the evil clutches of Supermax

[PanzerGeneral]

Summary of the war (March 1941)
I will share some thoughts and statistics on the war so far.

First, Supermax has been very aggressive as the axis player. I have not much PBEM experience but his aggressiveness has taken me completely by surprise. As other people have mentioned I have so far only reacted to his moves, and have hardly had any initiative. The only areas where I have taken the initiative have been the ongoing campaign in North Africa.

The Polish campaign was over after two turns, as expected. What made this victory spectacular in my eyes is that Supermax did not use his Luftwaffe in Poland. In turn two he attacked Holland, which was very surprising. At this stage I knew that I would be in trouble if he continued against Belgium and France. This is of course what Supermax did. The computer weather gods were on his side the autumn of 1939 which caused Belgium to capitulate in 1 turn. The French army was totally unprepared for his early assault on France. My troops had just deployed to their defensive positions when his Wehrmacht came rolling into France. I shipped all French garrisons from North Africa to France, as I expect is the same strategy used by most players. I spend some PPs on getting them shipped but it is cheaper than buying new units. The downside is that it takes a couple of turns to ship and deploy them. In my case this was critical as Supermax attacked France way before I was prepared to meet him. The early attack on France caused e to spend my French PPs on repairs. Thus I was unable to invest in more units and my French army never got a chance to expand.

When France was defeated in March 1940, I assumed that Supermax would try Sealion in May-June after he had repaired his army. Again the he took me by surprise by launching Sealion as early as April. Britain was not prepared for a landing this early. In retrospect my handling of the Britain was incompetent to put it mildly. I used the Royal navy aggressively early on and paid a heavy price when the Kriegsmarine attacked and caused heavy losses to my navy. I lost my CV early on, and I spent a fortune on repairing my damaged navy. This meant that I did not have much PPs for investing in units which could stop the Germans on the British beaches. What is worst is that after repairing the Royal navy most of it was sunk during Sealion. Man what a waste of PPs. In retrospect I think even the computer AI could have handled Britain better than me

Supermax did not stop to surprise me after this. Even before Britain was conquered he invaded Britain/Canada on the American continent. Here I am currently fighting for the very survival of Britain.

My campaign in North Africa is basically to cause some Italian casualties and force the Italians to use their PPs on repairs instead of buying new units (and burn some oil as well).

As several have mentioned (as well as Supermax in some emails to me) is that the Wehrmacht have used a lot of oil on being this aggressive early on in the war. The main focus for Britian is to force the Wehrmacht to spend as much oil as possible. If the axis oil reserves are low enough it could mean that he will not be too aggressive early on in Barbarossa. This my hope as his aggressiveness has taken me by surprise a lot of times. The Russians don’t need any surprises.

What will happen next. I think if Britain is defeated, Supermax will invade the US, even if this means a delayed Barbarossa. The benefits would help him enormously. He can leave his Western front completely unprotected, which means more units to facilitate in Barbarossa. Most importantly I think is that he will save a lot of fuel as he does not need fighters/subs to stop the US.

The war effort and production of the allies.


The British research status.


The US research status.


The Russian research status.


The plan for the US is to invest in land units and planes (figthers, tac bombers, strategic bombers). The first priority for the US is to kick the axis from the American continent. Afterwards the US navy must be expanded in order to be able to escort their units across the Atlantic.

The Russian plan is to invest in several fighters. I want to force Supermax to spend fuel early on for his Luftwaffe. As well as lots of infantry, my first concern is to be able to build a stable defensive line with lots of units before trying anything fancy.

Now it is time for some numbers.

Manpower status:
Britain: 419, 73%
USA: 477, 73%
Russia: 1762, 90%

Total PPs collected:
Britain: 867
France: 140
USA: 361
Russia: 849

I have taken the statistics from each turn in order to see trends in what is happening in this war. Here are some charts, for those who are interested in such things.

[Clark]

Even if the UK is knocked out, the US and USSR can give an overextended Axis fits. Germany will need to spend PPs and oil breaking down the American defenses, both of which will take away from the forces necessary to deal the Soviets a knockout blow. A strong USSR in 1942 relatively close to the Polish border is not what the Axis wants, whatever the situation in the UK and US.

Can Stalin DOW Iran in GS? If so, a strong push through the Middle East would deprive supermax of the oil he needs to fuel his aggressiveness.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

If you and Supermax install GS v1.02 then the convoys will go to New York and add to the US production. So if you liberate Canada again then all you lose is the ability to place units in Ottawa and Halifax.

Please remember that if you're about to lose Ottawa and desperately need PP's then you can sell your UK labs and get back some PP's to build units with. I think you might need some offensive units to deal with the German armor and mech. So building a British mech or armor unit might be smart if you have the time and PP's for it. But it should not be at the expense of
repairing depleted units and building speed bumps.

I think the main reason you're in this big mess is because you wasted your navy on several occasions. If you had tried to save it in Britain and also later then you would have had a strong escort navy to protect your transports from Britain to Canada. You lost valuable transports to sub attacks. But that is hindsight. I think most people don't want to lose Britain so they fight with all they have, thus losing even bigger. Remember that Britain can always come back after losing to Sealion. Keep Canada and you can engage the Germans again once their units become entangled in battles in Russia.

[trulster]

The US will be fighting a land war, would recommend an armour lab to be able to stand a chance against the wehrmacht. And another armour unit in time for the upcoming battle. Doubly so for the Russians, you will be fighting an offensive war with them and need to get that tech going ASAP.

[Clark]

The US will be fighting a land war, would recommend an armour lab to be able to stand a chance against the wehrmacht. And another armour unit in time for the upcoming battle. Doubly so for the Russians, you will be fighting an offensive war with them and need to get that tech going ASAP.

One good thing about the American entry is that they already have some tech advances. So you're probably entering with forces similar in strength to their German counterparts, unless supermax has managed to sock a bunch away in labs, too.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

GS v1.02 will probably be released by Slitherine tomorrow so when you install it then you shouldn't worry so much if you lose Ottawa. Then USA will get all the convoys instead. I think you need to max the number of labs for general and focus on industry. This way you can get tech level 3 industry and can build a total of 13 labs. I think you need the following number of labs: infantry: 3, armor: 2, air: 3, naval: 2, general: 3. When you get near max air labs you see some of the air labs and build more armor and infantry labs.

If Britain surrenders then you won't have the British transport and invasion capacity. Then you might consider having 3 naval labs with focus upon surface ships so you increase the us transport and invasion capacity as fast as possible.

Russian should have the following labs: infantry:3, armor: 3, air: 3, naval: 0, general: 3. From 1943 you build a fourth lab in armor and then infantry. When you get close to max air tech you sell an air lab to get the fourth general lab.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

To Panzergeneral

Consequences of installing GS v1.02 that will be released by Slitherine tomorrow.

This version will fix several bugs, but also introduce some new functionality regarding Canada and convoys. I think it's very important you know about these so you can prepare for it happening or not install the new version if it will ruin your game. Then Supermax should avoid installing it as well.

1. Canada (including UK controlled hexes), Iceland and Greenland will have North European weather and can thus have severe winter. So the winters will last longer.
2. The convoys will be rerouted to New York if Halifax is Axis controlled and London is captured.
3. The convoys will be US and added to the US economy if Britain surrenders.
4. USA will DoW Germany if a hex in Canada (including the UK controlled hexes) is Axis controlled.

The latter point will definitely affect your game and bring USA into the game immediately. So you might decide to hold installing GS v1.02 until USA joins the Allies by their own.

[PanzerGeneral]

3. April 1941, The Royal navy engages the Kriegsmarine
The weather.


The allied scientists produce some more results.


Status in England.


The 8th army attacks Benghazi. It seems that Supermax is sending some reinforcements.


The Royal navy continues its engagement of the Kriegsmarine. The result is a uboat and DD which are sunk. A German CV and two BBs are trapped. Can I manage to destroy them? Where are his uboats? I expect some counter attacks in force anytime soon. I move in my CV and observe that Supermax has blocked any attempt to land behind his front with my lone infantry. It is shipped further north and will facilitate with the defence of Ottawa. Supermax continues to attack towards Ottawa. I pull back an infantry corps which shall be repaired. The rest of the army receives repairs.


I spot two convoys which are inbound next turn. That means over 100 extra PPs. Woohoo!!

[gerones]

You must annihilate the Kriegsmarine in the St. Lawrence mouth and disembark in the only one hex pass in front of Otawa with your british infantry corps. The german infantry corps blocking your disembark in the SW will not have enough time to reopen the supply routes because of the mountain hexes between. In my opinion this is the only chance to save Canada.

[joerock22]

If I were you I would have sold all my labs as soon as the Germans landed in Canada and recruited as many corps as I could. You might as well do it now, even though it may be too late. Research means nothing if Ottawa falls.

[trulster]

Yep, also, use that CV to directly attack the Luftwaffe bombers, they are the main driving force in German advance!

[PanzerGeneral]

23. April 1941, The Royal navy engages the Kriegsmarine, Ottawa under attack
The weather.


The allied scientists produce some more results.


Again Supermax foils my ambitions. In North Africa he has managed to surround most of the 8th army. I don’t know what I was thinking. But I thought I had things under control with my infantry corps near Tobruk. Well once again I show my incompetence by leading the British. A relief force will attempt to open up the supply lines.


In Canada the Royal navy sinks two German BBs. My CV attack one of the tac bombers. I move in my transport with escorts. With some luck I can manage to sink the German CV next turn and move in my troop transport in an attempt to cut off the Wehrmacht which is near Ottawa.
The British army attacks the German infantry korps near Ottawa which receives some damage.
Britain buys two infantry corps.

[PanzerGeneral]

To Panzergeneral

Consequences of installing GS v1.02 that will be released by Slitherine tomorrow.

This version will fix several bugs, but also introduce some new functionality regarding Canada and convoys. I think it's very important you know about these so you can prepare for it happening or not install the new version if it will ruin your game. Then Supermax should avoid installing it as well.

1. Canada (including UK controlled hexes), Iceland and Greenland will have North European weather and can thus have severe winter. So the winters will last longer.
2. The convoys will be rerouted to New York if Halifax is Axis controlled and London is captured.
3. The convoys will be US and added to the US economy if Britain surrenders.
4. USA will DoW Germany if a hex in Canada (including the UK controlled hexes) is Axis controlled.

The latter point will definitely affect your game and bring USA into the game immediately. So you might decide to hold installing GS v1.02 until USA joins the Allies by their own.

We'll stick to GS v1.00. As a software engineer I am skeptical to patch the game whilst having 3 PBEM games going

[PanzerGeneral]

If I were you I would have sold all my labs as soon as the Germans landed in Canada and recruited as many corps as I could. You might as well do it now, even though it may be too late. Research means nothing if Ottawa falls.

This is brilliant advice! Which I must follow

[Peter Stauffenberg]

We'll stick to GS v1.00. As a software engineer I am skeptical to patch the game whilst having 3 PBEM games going

I'm also a software engineer and I can tell you that this upgrade is nothing to be afraid of.

You can safely upgrade to v1.02 as soon as USA joins the Allies. The upgrade won't have negative effects upon existing games. But the new rule of USA DoW'ing Germany if Axis units are in Canada is a bit harsh to implement in this game because Supermax attacked based upon this not happening.

Once USA joins the Allies there are no effects introduced in v1.02 that can affect your game except the convoys going to USA if Ottawa falls. That is quite important for your survival. Without US access to the convoy income then you will struggle to prevent Supermax from going to Washington.

Remember that this is not like Microsoft Office upgrading from 2003 to 2007. The GS v1.00 to v1.02 upgrade is very small.