Komnenan Byzantine - 800pt

[Omar]

If there is a search feature, I cant find it. Cant even pull up posts based on user (a "find all posts by..." on your user profile).

Looks like I might have some extra time in the coming months, and figured I should get working on my Byzantines. First, I will list what I own, then what I am proposing. Any and all advice on army composition is apprecaited.


Command (2-4 stands)
Byzantine Cavalry - 8 stands
Latinkion - 12 stands
Turkopouloi - 16 stands
Varangian Guard - 8 stands
Byzantine Archers (LF) - 12 stands
Byzantine Spears - 8 stands

I also have models that can stand in for MF Byzantine Archers and Byzantine Javelinmen.


What I was thinking is...

IC
2x TC
Unfortified Camp
2x Byzantine Cav (4) - Kn/Arm/Av/Dr/Lance,Sword
3x Latinikon (4) - Kn/HvArm/Sup/Dr/Lance,Sword
4x Turkopouloi (4) - LH/Un/Av/Un/Bow,Sword
1x Byzantine Archers (6) - LF/Un/Av/Dr/Bow

Puts me to 796pts with 10 BG's.

Coming back to the game after over a year off, so I might be mis-remembering info.. but I seem to remember there was an advantage to having an IC with as much LH and other mounted as I have? When I played a practice game with this set up, I made the mistake of running my Archers off on the flanks and having my Turkopouloi screen my Knights.. only to find out that they dont pass through like LF does. I figured I would reverse that if the terrain allowed, have the Turks on the flanks to harass whatever is out there or to make a run at their back field, while the Archers screen the Knights and (hopefully) disrupt something with their shooting prior to a charge.

I cant remember how well the mass of small units worked for me then.


Thanks!

[deadtorius]

Since you have been out of the game for a bit, you can't voluntarily charge through your lights, if you have to test and fail they burst through, otherwise your lights have to get out of the way to allow the knights to charge. Not familiar with the list but wouldn't you want some MF to help hold terrain or something. Looks like a clear open ground only army to me.

[Omar]

Nah, I knew about that.. wasnt planning to have them charge through the lights, was planning to have the lights retreat through them and then to let them charge. When my opponent finally tries to run them down after getting peppered with the arrows.

No real MF options available to the list. I can add Varangians or Spears, but both are heavy foot.

Yea, have to have that open ground.

[IanB3406]

I think one battlegroup of average drilled knights is enough. Your army is actually small in BG count, but big in fighting frontage and very one dimensional - it's a knight army. Another option is to drop one BG of drilled and one BG of the other knights - 3BG if knights should be enough and then add the Varangians - even as Superior Heavy Weapon Heavy Armor they will beat most infantry. This should allow you to purchas another unit of something to bulk up the battlegroup count as well.

Ian

[SirGarnet]

In general, a mix of drilled and undrilled knights is most efficient so long as it fits your doctrine.

[spikemesq]

There is a cheap BG in that list of 4 LF Undrilled Poor Javelins for 8 points IIRC.

Also 3 BGs of Latinikon may be too many. Consider 2 BG and use the points saved to fortify the camp (benefits a small army) and add another BG (maybe another 6-pack of LF archers).

Spike

[sdaddino]

If there is a search feature, I cant find it. Cant even pull up posts based on user (a "find all posts by..." on your user profile).

Looks like I might have some extra time in the coming months, and figured I should get working on my Byzantines. First, I will list what I own, then what I am proposing. Any and all advice on army composition is apprecaited.


Command (2-4 stands)
Byzantine Cavalry - 8 stands
Latinkion - 12 stands
Turkopouloi - 16 stands
Varangian Guard - 8 stands
Byzantine Archers (LF) - 12 stands
Byzantine Spears - 8 stands

I also have models that can stand in for MF Byzantine Archers and Byzantine Javelinmen.


What I was thinking is...

IC
2x TC
Unfortified Camp
2x Byzantine Cav (4) - Kn/Arm/Av/Dr/Lance,Sword
3x Latinikon (4) - Kn/HvArm/Sup/Dr/Lance,Sword
4x Turkopouloi (4) - LH/Un/Av/Un/Bow,Sword
1x Byzantine Archers (6) - LF/Un/Av/Dr/Bow

Puts me to 796pts with 10 BG's.

Coming back to the game after over a year off, so I might be mis-remembering info.. but I seem to remember there was an advantage to having an IC with as much LH and other mounted as I have? When I played a practice game with this set up, I made the mistake of running my Archers off on the flanks and having my Turkopouloi screen my Knights.. only to find out that they dont pass through like LF does. I figured I would reverse that if the terrain allowed, have the Turks on the flanks to harass whatever is out there or to make a run at their back field, while the Archers screen the Knights and (hopefully) disrupt something with their shooting prior to a charge.

I cant remember how well the mass of small units worked for me then.


Thanks!

my list total 798:
c-in-c Troop CinC 1 35
sub Troop Sub 1 35
sub Troop Sub 1 35
sub Troop Sub 1 35
Number Point
of Bases per Base BG Value
Byzantine Cavalry kn Armoured average drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 18 72
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
skytikon cv protected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 11 44
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz jav lf unprotected average drilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 4 16

[pyrrhus]

c-in-c IC 80
sub Troop Sub 1 35
Allied tc 25

Number Point 794pts
of Bases per Base BG Value
Byzantine Cavalry kn Armoured average drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 18 72
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Ghilman cv armoured superior drilled bow sword - 4 76
Ghilman cv armoured superior drilled bow sword - 4 76
seljuk lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz jav lf unprotected poor drilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 4 8

You could upgrade one of the skytikon bgs to uprotected cav for 4pts if wanting that bit of extra shooting to support the ghilman in their role of dirupting the charge target of the latinikon .ashame you dont get enough spear ( some should be armoured )to build a combined arms army or knights mixed with the lancer cav which I believed happened aswell .LONG LIVE ALEXIOS

[spikemesq]

I ran the following list at IWF (and did poorly, but that was operator error)

4 TC
2 Latinikon 4 x Kn/Dr/Sup/Hvy Arm/Ln/Sw
2 Kavallaroi 4 x Kn/Dr/Av/Arm/Ln/Sw
2 Skythikon 4 x LH/UnDr/Av/UnProt/Bw/Sw
2 Varangian 4 x HF/Dr/Elite/HvyArm/HW
2 Archers 6 x LF/Dr/Av/UnProt/Bw
1 Javelins 4 x LF/Dr/Pr/Unprot/JLS

Fortified Camp

11 BGs 800 points.

In hindsight, I would drop one BG of the Kavallaroi to add some LF Archers and/or change to an IC + 2 TC command structure. The army is still pretty small, but it hits hard.

HTH

Spike

[sdaddino]

my list total 798:
c-in-c Troop CinC 1 35
sub Troop Sub 1 35
sub Troop Sub 1 35
sub Troop Sub 1 35
Number Point
of Bases per Base BG Value
Byzantine Cavalry kn Armoured average drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 18 72
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
skytikon cv protected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 11 44
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz jav lf unprotected average drilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 4 16

whit this army you have 4 lf to place in the first group (4-3-3-3)
second group 3 lh
third group 1 lh 1 cv and l kn ave
fourth group 3 kn ha sup the best of your army
I think general Tc is enough
IC and FC are a lot of point ...
any osservations?

[pyrrhus]

I choose the ic for terrain and tests if I face a horse archer/foot archer enemy (just my oppinion)

[sergiomonteleone]

c-in-c IC 80
sub Troop Sub 1 35
Allied tc 25

Number Point 794pts
of Bases per Base BG Value
Byzantine Cavalry kn Armoured average drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 18 72
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Latinikon kn Heavily Armoured superior drilled - Lancer Swordsmen - 4 26 104
Ghilman cv armoured superior drilled bow sword - 4 76
Ghilman cv armoured superior drilled bow sword - 4 76
seljuk lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
skytikon lh unprotected average undrilled bow Swordsmen - 4 10 40
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz arch lf unprotected poor drilled bow - - 6 3 18
byz jav lf unprotected poor drilled Javelins Light Spear - 4 4 8

Good list with Seljuk Ally.

Interesting option could be: downgrade IC to TC and so using 3 Byzantine TC's (in generally 1 with Kn's, 1 with LH's and 1 with LF's), substitute 1 Ghilman with 2 more seljuk LH's
Sergio

[SirGarnet]

Pyrhhus has an interesting list - no foot that can't run away and everything else is mobile and hard hitting enough to play an troop-efficient screen and smash type of game in the right hands. For that strategy, upgrading one of the LH to Cav might be useful to support the LH wing and keep the screened enemy honest if they try to swing through ignoring the screening force, among other things.

My vision of what the army should look like has some real foot in it, but I admit this one looks like fun.

[pyrrhus]

I went with the IC to get to choose the Terrain/ enemy deploys first and make the first move plus all the other normal IC benfits

[sergiomonteleone]

I went with the IC to get to choose the Terrain/ enemy deploys first and make the first move plus all the other normal IC benfits

As this is an army without HF or MF in generally you can manouvre, so I prefer to have 3 Byzantine TC's.
I prefer also to move first.
You can use LF for terrain, even if they are poor. In any case you can skirmish with LF on terrain.
Sergio

[pyrrhus]

But terrain choice can be very important especially when fighting aztec's (which I will be ) The manuver is great but Ii need open to make this baby work