Modelling Medieval Welsh

[Skullzgrinda]

Modelling a Medieval Welsh army for the time of Owain Glyndwr, are these concepts reasonable?

A majority of archaic looking figures - tunics, cloaks, targe and spear or bow types, but also mixing in more contemporary kit, such as bascinets, heater shields and hose.

A fairly drab palette. Earth colors, autumnal ochres and reds, grays and black for the most part. Some VERY simple plaids and checks in subdued colors as above. A few knight and cadre types in more customary English and European colors and armor, but basic and simple.

The main problems are heater shields and banners. What would look right on these? I know the English had the red cross on white, the French a white cross, the Scots a white cross saltire, but I don't know what to do for the Welsh. I am considereing solid color heater shields, or perhaps siimple Celtic crosses or religious imagery, such as the symbols of the Evangelists. Certainly some red griffons, but these could reach a point of overkill very quickly. Sort of at sea on heraldry and field signs, if indeed they were used by the common folk at all.

Suggestions?

[hammy]

Owain's army was essentuially that of a marcher lord with a load of hangers on. The better troops would look IMO much like any other English army of the time. The spearmen on the other hand were very much less formally equipped.

Owain's personal arms are (I am probably describing this wrongly heraldicly but I will give it a go) quartered, lion rampant (facing left), red on gold top left and bottom right, gold on red top right and bottom left.

It is possible that some troops might have had some sort of livery colours but I think they are a later trend.

I use an assortment of figures from 10th - 15th century. My 100YW longbowmen get to be the better longbow. My feudal longbow get used for the rest of the longbow and spearmen are a mix of almughavar types and other 'blokes with tunics and spears'

[Skullzgrinda]

That is pretty much what I have in mind. Here and there I am going to take a little bit of Pre-Raphaelite license, but not over the top.

The random (and scarce) infantry heater shields are what bother me, as I am at a loss for devices. Right now I am just leaning towards a variety of off reds for those.

Somewhere in my stuff I have an Owain personality figure by Thistle and Rose (now out of business) which looks like the Osprey illustration - griffon on great bascinet, caparisoned horse etc. Looking forward to this project as aninteresting amalgamation of hairies and chivalric types.

[hammy]

I think that for the limited numbers of shields looking like they want heraldry just going for very simple paterns like diagonally halved or crosses would be fine. Essentially as Wales had been part of England for 100 years at the time of the uprising it was heading to being more like England than anything else.

If you use the French ally there are actually a number of knights who we know the names of so you might even be able to get clever and use real heraldry for them. If you want to do this let me know and I will see what I can dig up.

[philqw78]

..... Looking forward to this project as aninteresting amalgamation of hairies and chivalric types.

Chivalric? Welsh? How?

[Skullzgrinda]

The handful of knights and cadre.

They invented Arthur. On my table, they can have chivalry.

[philqw78]

...... On my table, they can have chivalry.

Table manners? Welsh? How?

[spikemesq]

There are not many Welsh worth having on the table. Here is one exception:



Spike

[philqw78]

There are not many Welsh worth having on the table. Here is one exception:



Spike

Changed my opinion of the Welsh completely. She can come round for tea any day.

[spikemesq]

Agreed. I also am not hung up on protocols or manners. Indeed, I prefer that she have no manners at all.

Spike

I'll be in my bunk for a bit . . .