Troops shooting from a gulley

TERRYFROMSPOKANE · Post by **TERRYFROMSPOKANE** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:16 am

Before this discussion addresses the "1MU" question posed by Bob, let me make sure I understand RBS' comments. Should I go to page 80 and replace "normally" with "must"?

Thanks, Terry the Obtuse.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:26 am

I think RBS was clear. Page 37 spells out it is must. First sentence of second paragraph p80 implies must if you keep page 37 in mind.

titanu · Post by **titanu** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:34 pm

viking123 wrote: I accepted Hammy's ruling but the question still remains of what the rule writers meant about being 1 MU away. Is it 1 MU between the actual BGs (this seems very short - it is less than for seeing each other in a forest) or 1MU fro the edge of the Gully. This would make it similar to a crest of hill.
Bob

All definitions on pages 130/131 are measured to the troops and not to the terrain. Otherwise a unit within 2" of the edge of a forest could see troops 12" or further inside it.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:13 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: As a side effect, it forces troops in ambush to shoot - but then, there is always some trigger-happy idiot, so that isn't unrealistic. (Unless you wanted to complicate the rules by making them pass a CMT not to shoot).

Does this mean troops represented by an ambush marker that have not been placed on the table yet? Or just troops that are on the table but not visible?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:58 pm

lawrenceg wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote: As a side effect, it forces troops in ambush to shoot - but then, there is always some trigger-happy idiot, so that isn't unrealistic. (Unless you wanted to complicate the rules by making them pass a CMT not to shoot).
Does this mean troops represented by an ambush marker that have not been placed on the table yet? Or just troops that are on the table but not visible?

Good question. I will leave that to the angels on a pinhead brigade to decide. As I have rarely (if ever) seen an ambush in a game of FOG I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

TERRYFROMSPOKANE · Post by **TERRYFROMSPOKANE** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:18 am

Golly, we use ambushes all the time. We must be doing something wrong.

Seriously, it is seldom one of our BG stays hidden long enough to shoot from ambush. But I think if troops who can shoot must shoot then this should apply to troops represented by an ambush marker as well.

Terry G.

TERRYFROMSPOKANE · Post by **TERRYFROMSPOKANE** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:20 am

I apologize for the message above. It was meant to be posted to the "Shooting from Ambush" thread - not here. Sorry for the error.

Terry G.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:59 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:
lawrenceg wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote: As a side effect, it forces troops in ambush to shoot - but then, there is always some trigger-happy idiot, so that isn't unrealistic. (Unless you wanted to complicate the rules by making them pass a CMT not to shoot).
Does this mean troops represented by an ambush marker that have not been placed on the table yet? Or just troops that are on the table but not visible?
Good question. I will leave that to the angels on a pinhead brigade to decide. As I have rarely (if ever) seen an ambush in a game of FOG I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

I would suggest that ambush markers should not shoot just as they cannot be interpenetrated. As the position and facing of the troops is not determined before they are revealed, it cannot be proved that they are eligible to shoot anyway.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:01 am

lawrenceg wrote:I would suggest that ambush markers should not shoot just as they cannot be interpenetrated. As the position and facing of the troops is not determined before they are revealed, it cannot be proved that they are eligible to shoot anyway.

It is determined when they are revealed, which would be when they shoot surely.

ShrubMiK · Post by **ShrubMiK** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:22 am

Which brings us back to the question: when do they shoot?

Let's assume the ruling is that even an undeclared (and hence troops not yet on table) ambush must shoot if eligible to do so, regardless of their owner's wishes. Their facing is not pre-defined, so the owner could decide they are facing in a direction such that the enemy BG is not in valid firing arc, so they need not revel themselves by shooting. That seems a bit gamey. And does their facing then have to written down, fixing how they appear on table when they are finally revealed? Mucky.

Simplest (and IMO logical) approach seems to be to say that troops in ambush and not yet revealed are under strict no-fire orders until either their general decides they should fire out of ambush (thus revealing themselves), or they are revealed by enemy getting close. Once revealed, the enemy can be assumed to know their general whereabouts from then on even if there are in subsequent turns no BGs close enough to still see them...and the rule of must shoot if can shoot applies to all on-table BGs.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:26 am

ShrubMiK wrote:..
the rule of must shoot if can shoot applies to all on-table BGs.

I think this is best. Since ambush markers are not treated as troops for interpenetration or anything else after the game has started until they are put on table.