My plans are to invade on September 30, which will allow me to have 3 tactical bombers in place. Do you think I should go one turn earlier?Stauffenberg wrote:How are things going in the east? It's already August and still no Barbarossa. Winter may strike as early as October so you only have 2 more guaranteed turns of fair weather. You need at least 2 turns to finish off all the front line units. Failing to kill these units means you will not get far in 1942. They will instead withdraw to the best defense line and hold you there for a long time.
The Spanish Gambit AAR (The War is Over.)
Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
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Peter Stauffenberg
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You can gamble to get at least one fair weather turn in October. If you like the gamble then you wait. If you want to make sure you kill the front line units then you go one turn earlier. With less air support you will take more step losses, but you can afford to repair them having production from Spain as an extra. 
Turn 37. August 21, 1941.
Jim unexpected counterattack and destroyed a German infantry corps. While I don't relish the fact that I lost an infantry corps, which I will replace, his attacks have made the RN CVs more vulnerable. I went after them this turn. His aggressive tactics have slowed my ground attacks but have given me opportunity to deal with the RN. As you can see the lead elements of the German u-boat force have reached the area and will begin to play a factor.
Orders have reached the Africa Krops from the highest levels that the Suez Canal will be taken before the end of January 1942. No retreat! Only advance!
Spanish Morocco is now a mop-up operation.
Based on advice from senior military advisers the Axis will launch Barbarossa next turn. The objective is to engage front line units and keep them from retreating east. The ultimate goal is the destruction of as many front line units before winter sets in without unnecessarily endangering Axis units. German commanders on the ground are scrambling to finalize their attack plans as they thought they had an extra 20-days.
Jim unexpected counterattack and destroyed a German infantry corps. While I don't relish the fact that I lost an infantry corps, which I will replace, his attacks have made the RN CVs more vulnerable. I went after them this turn. His aggressive tactics have slowed my ground attacks but have given me opportunity to deal with the RN. As you can see the lead elements of the German u-boat force have reached the area and will begin to play a factor.
Orders have reached the Africa Krops from the highest levels that the Suez Canal will be taken before the end of January 1942. No retreat! Only advance!
Spanish Morocco is now a mop-up operation.
Based on advice from senior military advisers the Axis will launch Barbarossa next turn. The objective is to engage front line units and keep them from retreating east. The ultimate goal is the destruction of as many front line units before winter sets in without unnecessarily endangering Axis units. German commanders on the ground are scrambling to finalize their attack plans as they thought they had an extra 20-days.
Last edited by rkr1958 on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Turn 38. September 10, 1941
Barbarossa!
The objective was to encircle or be adjacent to as many units as possible without unnecessarily endangering Axis units.
In the Med, Jim retreated with his serious depleted CV to base. Axis subs have now arrived on scene and are in position to begin interdiction of the RN.
Clean up continues in Spanish Morocco.
Barbarossa!
The objective was to encircle or be adjacent to as many units as possible without unnecessarily endangering Axis units.
In the Med, Jim retreated with his serious depleted CV to base. Axis subs have now arrived on scene and are in position to begin interdiction of the RN.
Clean up continues in Spanish Morocco.
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Peter Stauffenberg
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You didn't get very far in Russia, but at least you made contact with most of the garrisons so they can't be railed out. If you don't get mud or winter weather then these units can be killed. The mech and corps units will be out of reach for you unless Jim decides to not retreat them.
I see a lot of subs in the Med and that means you probably can't be chasing the convoys with sub hordes. That means the British receive a lot of PP's that can be spent on repairs and new units. You're in a hurry because USA will join soon and that means reinforcements to Iraq. You're probably too late to take Iraq, but Port Said is possible. Holding it will be tougher unless Jim doesn't get his fleet out of the Med in time.
At least this buys you time so you can build up for a 1942 clash with the Russians. I think you're in for a challenge there because Russia will lose less PP's and units in 1941 than usual. So this game will be decided in 1942.
Also remember that the Allies don't need to invade in Northern Africa if they can invade in France instead. So you need a strategic reserve there in 1942. You need more subs to start sinking Allied convoys or you will see a British invasion of France earlier than you think.
Your biggest problem is that you have been so active for so long without grabbing any oil. Fighting in the east will increase the oil consumption so you're really in big trouble unless you grab some oilfields. Maybe you should go all-out in the Middle East and get Iraq and Persia? Then you just use 1942 in Russia to keep them at bay with some fighting. If you take Basra then you have no more problems in the Med and can focus only on France.
I see a lot of subs in the Med and that means you probably can't be chasing the convoys with sub hordes. That means the British receive a lot of PP's that can be spent on repairs and new units. You're in a hurry because USA will join soon and that means reinforcements to Iraq. You're probably too late to take Iraq, but Port Said is possible. Holding it will be tougher unless Jim doesn't get his fleet out of the Med in time.
At least this buys you time so you can build up for a 1942 clash with the Russians. I think you're in for a challenge there because Russia will lose less PP's and units in 1941 than usual. So this game will be decided in 1942.
Also remember that the Allies don't need to invade in Northern Africa if they can invade in France instead. So you need a strategic reserve there in 1942. You need more subs to start sinking Allied convoys or you will see a British invasion of France earlier than you think.
Your biggest problem is that you have been so active for so long without grabbing any oil. Fighting in the east will increase the oil consumption so you're really in big trouble unless you grab some oilfields. Maybe you should go all-out in the Middle East and get Iraq and Persia? Then you just use 1942 in Russia to keep them at bay with some fighting. If you take Basra then you have no more problems in the Med and can focus only on France.
Last edited by Peter Stauffenberg on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I haven't done the calculation but I'm hoping that the PP's from the convoys getting through are somewhat offset by the repair and replacement costs for the UK units depleted or lost. Whether or not that's a wash I don't know but at least his losses compensate somewhat for that.trulster wrote:Yep, agree that while it might seem tactically sound to chase down RN units w the subs, strategically letting all those convoys flow into UK unhindered cannot be good. Also, the reason why you see so many ships in the Med is cause they aren't needed in the Atlantic due to no sub threat.
In terms of the RN there is a chance that I can trap that large force in the Med if Jim delays too long before he withdraws. So, I will send my entire u-boat force (5 German and 1 Italian) to assist keeping the RN in the Med and from escaping.
I do need to build 2 to 3 more u-boats and take Norway to interdict the Russian convoys. Winter will be a good time to build those u-boats and spring 1942 will be my timeline for invading Norway.
In Egypt there is no backing down. This is the strategy I've chosen and I will win or lose with it. I plan to continue on towards the Middle Eastern oil fields after I've taken the canal. At a minimum I want to force Jim to commit the early USA air and ground forces there instead of sending them to the UK. Even if I don't get the oilfields drawing US initial forces to Palestine will strengthen my defensive positions in France and Spain.
Russia is a concern. I haven't built any armor corps. My main mobile force onsists of mechanize units, which use much less oil than tanks. I will also continue to build infantry corps and I need another fighter or two there.
As Borger pointed out I need to build a central reserve to guard against an Allied invasion of France or Spain. That reserve will be built around the ground forces still cleaning up in Spanish Morocco and two full infantry corps in Spain.
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trulster
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Yes, now that Gib has been taken and forces are in places, definitely go for broke killing Egypt and as much as possible of RN. I think it is a given that you get to the Iraqi oilfields, the challenge is just not to overcommit while doing it. Every unit matters in Russia, not easy to find the right balance.
That to me is what makes CEaW - GS fun and challenging to play. Also, every game is different. I don't think there is any one way to win or that one side is dominate over the other. If there was, then I wouldn't continue to lose to Borger, Joe or Dave (no matter which side I play)!trulster wrote:Every unit matters in Russia, not easy to find the right balance.
I feel that Jim and I are equally matched so I believe this game will come down to who executes their strategy the best and who makes the fewest mistakes. Even if I significantly degrade UK offensive capability and successfully contain the UK/US invasion threat this comes at a price. And that price is a strong Russia and a weaker than desired Russian front. I definitely need more fighters there to blunt any thought that Jim might have of a 1942 offensive.
Turn 39. September 30, 1941.
The Kriegsmarine BB was ambushed by a Russian submarine fleet. Ouch!!! Jim laid the trap and I sailed right into it. Well done Jim!
The Russian Baltic BB fleet was just too exposed. I should have know better.
The Germans continue their push against the frontline Russian units.
In Egypt I moved the German u-boats into ambush positions. I tried to move into the "empty" hex next to the 7-step carried but my sub was bounced back which indicates that that hex is occupied by a UK sub. I also took this turn to repair ground units and upgrade all air units in Egypt. The Med ground offensive resumes next turn.
Finally, Spanish Morocco is cleared.
The Kriegsmarine BB was ambushed by a Russian submarine fleet. Ouch!!! Jim laid the trap and I sailed right into it. Well done Jim!
The Russian Baltic BB fleet was just too exposed. I should have know better.
The Germans continue their push against the frontline Russian units.
In Egypt I moved the German u-boats into ambush positions. I tried to move into the "empty" hex next to the 7-step carried but my sub was bounced back which indicates that that hex is occupied by a UK sub. I also took this turn to repair ground units and upgrade all air units in Egypt. The Med ground offensive resumes next turn.
Finally, Spanish Morocco is cleared.
Turn 40. October 20, 1941
The axis offensive to take the Suez Canal resumed this turn. A UK infantry corps was destroyed and the Egyptian fighter was reduced to 1-step. A 10-step u-boat tried its luck against the CV in Port Said and got a bloody nose. The u-boat lost 3-steps and only knocked off 1-step from the CV. I did move the Italian fighter in place to provide air coverage against the Allied attacks to surely come against it next turn, which will knock off more steps. The only upside is that Jim, if he does attack it, will use his one remaining good (9-step) fighter. My hope is that he will lead with this air attack so that the Italian fighter will engage it and knock it down 2 or 3-steps.
Jim badly mauled one u-boat, knocking it down to 1-step. It and the other one he discovered last turn, which he depleted to 6-steps, ran and hid (north of Crete). They will head to port next turn for needed repairs.
One of the two remaining German u-boats and the Italian sub arrived on scene this turn and took up position near the canal.
German intelligence intercepted and decoded the following message from Churchill to UK commanders in Egypt.
In Russia, the axis got a good weather turn and pushed forward cautiously. Bad weather is expected next turn and a severe winter for this year is predicted. The only objective remaining before then is the captured of Odessa. Also, the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine struck back at the Russian sub knocking it down to 2-steps. Tallinn is the only base remaining where it can base to repair. The good news about not pushing far in 1941 is that a number of axis units will not be in Russia proper and; therefore, will not be subject to the severe winter effects.
The axis offensive to take the Suez Canal resumed this turn. A UK infantry corps was destroyed and the Egyptian fighter was reduced to 1-step. A 10-step u-boat tried its luck against the CV in Port Said and got a bloody nose. The u-boat lost 3-steps and only knocked off 1-step from the CV. I did move the Italian fighter in place to provide air coverage against the Allied attacks to surely come against it next turn, which will knock off more steps. The only upside is that Jim, if he does attack it, will use his one remaining good (9-step) fighter. My hope is that he will lead with this air attack so that the Italian fighter will engage it and knock it down 2 or 3-steps.
Jim badly mauled one u-boat, knocking it down to 1-step. It and the other one he discovered last turn, which he depleted to 6-steps, ran and hid (north of Crete). They will head to port next turn for needed repairs.
One of the two remaining German u-boats and the Italian sub arrived on scene this turn and took up position near the canal.
German intelligence intercepted and decoded the following message from Churchill to UK commanders in Egypt.
The true intent of the axis strategy in the Med has been correctly guessed by the enemy. German intelligence also intercepted and decoded the following message from the UK admiralty to Churchill.Jim's email wrote:Are you trying to close the Suez?
If true, the retreat of the RN from the Med would be a naval victory for the axis and would move the axis a step closer to "closing the Med."Jim's email wrote:I now have enough damaged ships, I pretty much need to move some of them out to use the Persian Gulf port.
In Russia, the axis got a good weather turn and pushed forward cautiously. Bad weather is expected next turn and a severe winter for this year is predicted. The only objective remaining before then is the captured of Odessa. Also, the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine struck back at the Russian sub knocking it down to 2-steps. Tallinn is the only base remaining where it can base to repair. The good news about not pushing far in 1941 is that a number of axis units will not be in Russia proper and; therefore, will not be subject to the severe winter effects.
In analyzing Jim's forces in the Med in the screen cap above it appears that he's committed the bulk of the UK army, RAF and RN there. While this will make it more difficult to take the canal the upside is that I know that the UK is tied up in the Med and doesn't have the forces to seriously maintain an European landing in France or Spain PROVIDED I have a central reserve in place there.
Again, the bad news is that Russia will be much stronger than in a typical game. Also, I didn't take Norway and now that the USA is about to entering I don't I think it would be wise to try to now. So Norway will remain neutral. I do need to build 3 additional u-boats and will take on the Murmansk convoy at its origin. This way I will force the USA to divert strategic bombers to covering that area and away from attacking the UK.
Again, the bad news is that Russia will be much stronger than in a typical game. Also, I didn't take Norway and now that the USA is about to entering I don't I think it would be wise to try to now. So Norway will remain neutral. I do need to build 3 additional u-boats and will take on the Murmansk convoy at its origin. This way I will force the USA to divert strategic bombers to covering that area and away from attacking the UK.
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Borger, I'll have to look but I'm in the mid 400's in oil and manpower is still above 75%. Since I don't have a very large tank force the only units that I have that are big oil users are my tactical and strategic bombers. With winter setting in in Russia their use will be decreased. The two tactical bombers and tank corps in the Med won't be that big of deal. But, when I open my next turn I'll get you the exact numbers.Stauffenberg wrote:How much oil do you have left and what manpower percentage do you have?
btw I just want to say that I'm really thankful you are doing this AAR. I wanted to try out the Spanish option. This way I can see how it goes.
Also WIF doesn't take that long to finish a game. I've attended WIFcon and in the course of less than a week some guys (usually 4 per game (W-Allies, Soviets/China, Germany/IT, JP) can nearly finish a game. My games at WIFcon I think made it into late '43, early '44 in under a week of play.
Both games are really great, but of course you are right CEAW is far more manageable and quick to play.
Also WIF doesn't take that long to finish a game. I've attended WIFcon and in the course of less than a week some guys (usually 4 per game (W-Allies, Soviets/China, Germany/IT, JP) can nearly finish a game. My games at WIFcon I think made it into late '43, early '44 in under a week of play.
Both games are really great, but of course you are right CEAW is far more manageable and quick to play.
Turn 41. November 11, 1941
Axis oil is at 456 and German manpower is at 85% at the start of the turn. I didn't get oil levels at the end of the turn but because of the force composition and limited action this turn I should have used less oil than I get per turn. We'll see if that's true at the start of next turn.
The British pulled back one hex in the Med. Because of the terrain it's a real bottleneck. I advance the one hex in order to redeploy a fighter and tactical bomber so that they in range of critical sea hexes to the east. The only action in the Med were naval and air attacks against the RAF and RN. Breaking Jim's defenses is going to be a tough nut to crack but if I can force him to withdraw the RN and RAF that'll make the job easier.
In Russia, I pushed ahead very cautiously and with the exception of south Russia in and near Odessa, which I captured, stayed out of Russia proper. In turned out that was wise to do as the Russian severe winter hit at the end of my turn. Even in the Odessa area I should be ok because as you can clearly see there are no Russian troops anywhere near by that could attack these units next turn.
The severe winter in Russia lasts 6 turns, which means that'll end at the end of my turn of March 9, 1942.
The axis builds this turn included a German u-boat and an Italian fighter.
Axis oil is at 456 and German manpower is at 85% at the start of the turn. I didn't get oil levels at the end of the turn but because of the force composition and limited action this turn I should have used less oil than I get per turn. We'll see if that's true at the start of next turn.
The British pulled back one hex in the Med. Because of the terrain it's a real bottleneck. I advance the one hex in order to redeploy a fighter and tactical bomber so that they in range of critical sea hexes to the east. The only action in the Med were naval and air attacks against the RAF and RN. Breaking Jim's defenses is going to be a tough nut to crack but if I can force him to withdraw the RN and RAF that'll make the job easier.
In Russia, I pushed ahead very cautiously and with the exception of south Russia in and near Odessa, which I captured, stayed out of Russia proper. In turned out that was wise to do as the Russian severe winter hit at the end of my turn. Even in the Odessa area I should be ok because as you can clearly see there are no Russian troops anywhere near by that could attack these units next turn.
The severe winter in Russia lasts 6 turns, which means that'll end at the end of my turn of March 9, 1942.
The axis builds this turn included a German u-boat and an Italian fighter.
Turn 43. November 29, 1941
I started the turn with 446 oil points and ended with 428. All my PPs went to repairs.
In the Med, Jim withdrew the RN and pulled backed in Egypt. I think he overestimated my u-boat force. Also, his pull back is a big help as the front has expanded to more than two hexes, which allows me to get more units in contact with his.
The Italian navy left their Atlantic ports and are headed for Tobruk. They will combine with the German and Italian corps there to for an invasion force that will hit behind the British lines and help take the canal.
Because of my small armor force my army doesn't require the normal amount of oil to conduct operations. I'm hoping that Jim believes that oil is an issue for me. My plan for after the captured of the canal is to push aggressively towards the middle eastern oil fields in the hope that Jim believes this oil is critical to my war effort. I hope that he sends US forces to reinforce there. I'd rather fight the US and UK east of the Suez than in Spain, France or the Atlantic side of North Africa.
In Russia I'm weak. I need to build more infantry and I need more tactical bombers and fighters.
I believe it's the fog of war that separates CEaW - GS (and CEaW) from other WW-II corps levels games. Without it I don't believe Jim would have pulled back in Egypt and I think I'd be in a lot more trouble in Russia than I am.
I started the turn with 446 oil points and ended with 428. All my PPs went to repairs.
In the Med, Jim withdrew the RN and pulled backed in Egypt. I think he overestimated my u-boat force. Also, his pull back is a big help as the front has expanded to more than two hexes, which allows me to get more units in contact with his.
The Italian navy left their Atlantic ports and are headed for Tobruk. They will combine with the German and Italian corps there to for an invasion force that will hit behind the British lines and help take the canal.
Because of my small armor force my army doesn't require the normal amount of oil to conduct operations. I'm hoping that Jim believes that oil is an issue for me. My plan for after the captured of the canal is to push aggressively towards the middle eastern oil fields in the hope that Jim believes this oil is critical to my war effort. I hope that he sends US forces to reinforce there. I'd rather fight the US and UK east of the Suez than in Spain, France or the Atlantic side of North Africa.
In Russia I'm weak. I need to build more infantry and I need more tactical bombers and fighters.
I believe it's the fog of war that separates CEaW - GS (and CEaW) from other WW-II corps levels games. Without it I don't believe Jim would have pulled back in Egypt and I think I'd be in a lot more trouble in Russia than I am.
Turn 43. December 19, 1941
Four new partisans popped up this turn! Two in France, one in Spain and one in Poland. They will soon be dispatched without mercy.
Jim pulled back more in Egypt and I saw a good chance to capture Alexandria. Attacks from two tactical bombers and a Germany infantry knocked the defenders down to 4-steps. Ah ... the 10-step German tank corps drove in with a decent chance to eliminate the defenders and capture the city ... and the tank corps lost 1-step and the 4-step infantry lost 0! The 3-star corps commander of the tank corps was relieved of command, demoted to a 2-star and sent to the Russian front to command an infantry division. I don't like how exposed the tank corps is. To mix things up a bit I moved a German and Italian infantry corps on transport in position to invade next turn. The Italian navy is two turns away so if they invade they'll be out of supply. However, I'm hoping that this will draw a reaction from Jim and if the do invade that they can link up with the ground force pushing from the west.
On the Russian front the only action was a tactical bomber and two infantry corps attack on Tallinn.
Four new partisans popped up this turn! Two in France, one in Spain and one in Poland. They will soon be dispatched without mercy.
Jim pulled back more in Egypt and I saw a good chance to capture Alexandria. Attacks from two tactical bombers and a Germany infantry knocked the defenders down to 4-steps. Ah ... the 10-step German tank corps drove in with a decent chance to eliminate the defenders and capture the city ... and the tank corps lost 1-step and the 4-step infantry lost 0! The 3-star corps commander of the tank corps was relieved of command, demoted to a 2-star and sent to the Russian front to command an infantry division. I don't like how exposed the tank corps is. To mix things up a bit I moved a German and Italian infantry corps on transport in position to invade next turn. The Italian navy is two turns away so if they invade they'll be out of supply. However, I'm hoping that this will draw a reaction from Jim and if the do invade that they can link up with the ground force pushing from the west.
On the Russian front the only action was a tactical bomber and two infantry corps attack on Tallinn.
Turn 44. January 8, 1941
To my surprise and sheer delight Jim pulled back in Egypt and gave me Alexandria. No only does this give me that city but it opens up the Egyptian front even more and allows more of my units to make contact with the Commonwealth defenders. Like the pull back at El Alamein, where he had be bottlenecked down to two frontline hexes, to this pull back these have given me for free what I thought I was going to have to pay dearly for. Time is not on my side. I need to close the canal and close fast so that I can redeploy German and Italian air and naval units to other fronts.
I will continue to push hard in Egypt after I capture the canal again in the hope that Jim believes I'm making a push for the middle eastern oil fields. I also hope to draw US early forces into that region. But the lack of UK fighter response makes me wonder if he's not trying to trap me into continuing on and tying up significant air and naval forces in Egypt. No matter, I will continue on until I captured Jerusalem. After that I will go on the defensive there and shift vital resources to other theaters.
On the Russian front the Army Group North (AGN) captured Tallinn and Army Group Center (AGC) attacked the defenders of Minsk knocking them down to 2-steps.
Even for a corps level game I'm amazed at how well fog of war works. Also, I'm amazed at the number of times I think I'm in trouble but I stay the course and because of fog of war my opponent pulls back or discontinues a troublesome or unexpected operation. This reinforces a key lesson that I've learned over the play of several games and that is, "stay the course." In other words, don't give up on your plans to easily. If you do and begin playing where you only react to your opponent's moves then you've lost. At least if you stay the course and lose, like I did against you, you lose on your own terms. And this is probably another one of those games that I'm going to lose on "my own terms"; but at least I'm having a blast trying something new.
To my surprise and sheer delight Jim pulled back in Egypt and gave me Alexandria. No only does this give me that city but it opens up the Egyptian front even more and allows more of my units to make contact with the Commonwealth defenders. Like the pull back at El Alamein, where he had be bottlenecked down to two frontline hexes, to this pull back these have given me for free what I thought I was going to have to pay dearly for. Time is not on my side. I need to close the canal and close fast so that I can redeploy German and Italian air and naval units to other fronts.
I will continue to push hard in Egypt after I capture the canal again in the hope that Jim believes I'm making a push for the middle eastern oil fields. I also hope to draw US early forces into that region. But the lack of UK fighter response makes me wonder if he's not trying to trap me into continuing on and tying up significant air and naval forces in Egypt. No matter, I will continue on until I captured Jerusalem. After that I will go on the defensive there and shift vital resources to other theaters.
On the Russian front the Army Group North (AGN) captured Tallinn and Army Group Center (AGC) attacked the defenders of Minsk knocking them down to 2-steps.
I feel very fortunate indeed that Jim didn't try to exploit that bad luck. I was worried that my tank corps was in danger. With some creative movement Jim could have gotten three ground units against it. What forced his favorable reaction and saved me was, I believe, the two infantry corps threatening to invade and that he didn't have any of his air units in range.joerock22 wrote:Bad luck there. Those two transports should keep him from striking too hard at your tank at least.
Even for a corps level game I'm amazed at how well fog of war works. Also, I'm amazed at the number of times I think I'm in trouble but I stay the course and because of fog of war my opponent pulls back or discontinues a troublesome or unexpected operation. This reinforces a key lesson that I've learned over the play of several games and that is, "stay the course." In other words, don't give up on your plans to easily. If you do and begin playing where you only react to your opponent's moves then you've lost. At least if you stay the course and lose, like I did against you, you lose on your own terms. And this is probably another one of those games that I'm going to lose on "my own terms"; but at least I'm having a blast trying something new.