TYW German lists

[Ghaznavid]

Then like today, Bavarians are ... different.
I wouldn't consider them typical in any way.

[rbodleyscott]

So there would be a case for Musket* for the Imperials at the start of the war perhaps?

Not if they are in BGs with 6 pike and 6 shot. That already gives a 1:1 ratio, without resorting to Musket*.

[nikgaukroger]

So there would be a case for Musket* for the Imperials at the start of the war perhaps?

Not if they are in BGs with 6 pike and 6 shot. That already gives a 1:1 ratio, without resorting to Musket*.

Imperials appear to be more 3:2, it is the Bavarians who are 1:1.

[Ghaznavid]

So there would be a case for Musket* for the Imperials at the start of the war perhaps?

Not if they are in BGs with 6 pike and 6 shot. That already gives a 1:1 ratio, without resorting to Musket*.

Imperials appear to be more 3:2, it is the Bavarians who are 1:1.

Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

[nikgaukroger]

[

5. Tataschiere - I'm intrigued as to what these are

Hmmm, actually I mispelled them, darn! It should be Tartschier (Tartsche is an old Term for Shield)
These guys (right side):


While they lock a bit like Sword and Buckler men they originally developed from the forlorn hopes of the Landsknechts. Their shield and body armour was supposedly bullet proof and their main job was dispersing 'unprotected' musketeers (i.e. pure musketeer units with no pikes). I was actually tempted to class them as impact foot, but that might overstate their efficiency. Sometimes they were also used as sort of an shield to protect the pikes of an incoming Tercio from enemy fire during before closing in. There were never enough of them to do that on a large scale (as was recommended in some manuals), as the cost of their armour was forbiddingly high. One of the reasons they fell out of favour. Might be sensible to restrict their use to before 1640 or actually 1638 (the last time I can recall them being mentioned).

Ah them. Montecuccoli mentions them as well - although, IIRC, he admits there will never be enough of them. I wonder if we should really be having separate bodies of them - somewhere I have a picture of them (or similar troops) supportimg shot types.

If they are meant to take out musketeer bodies is there an argument that they should be MF to be more able to winkle them out of terrain?

[nikgaukroger]

Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

Just an approximation

[rbodleyscott]

Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

Just an approximation

I think you guys are talking at cross purposes.

I (can only) assume Nik means 3:2 shot:pike, not the other way round as the above suggests.

[Ghaznavid]

If they are meant to take out musketeer bodies is there an argument that they should be MF to be more able to winkle them out of terrain?

Possibly, but I don't remember reading anything that suggests so. OTOH I found only two mentionings of Tartschiere operating alone and in sizable numbers and I don't remember reading anything about musket regiments hiding in terrain at those occasions ... there might be a connection...
One could make them optional MF/HF kinda like the Landsknecht forlone hopes.

[Ghaznavid]

Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

Just an approximation

I think you guys are talking at cross purposes.

I (can only) assume Nik means 3:2 shot:pike, not the other way round as the above suggests.

While 3:2 Shoot:Pike makes sense I can't see how that makes him arrive at musket* ...

[nikgaukroger]

If they are meant to take out musketeer bodies is there an argument that they should be MF to be more able to winkle them out of terrain?

Possibly, but I don't remember reading anything that suggests so. OTOH I found only two mentionings of Tartschiere operating alone and in sizable numbers and I don't remember reading anything about musket regiments hiding in terrain at those occasions ... there might be a connection...
One could make them optional MF/HF kinda like the Landsknecht forlone hopes.

Cheers - I'm tempted by the HF/MF idea.

[nikgaukroger]

While 3:2 Shoot:Pike makes sense I can't see how that makes him arrive at musket* ...

Because in base numbers BGs are (almost) always 1:1 shot:pike or 2:1, so Musket* allows us to fiddle the latter by reducing the effectiveness of their shooting at close range so that they can represent formations that are more like 3:2.

[Ghaznavid]

Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed it is IMO important to replace it with something else to ensure there are 1-2 BGs of Kürassiers that will be set apart from the mass of them as well as give the player of a Swedish army a REAL reason to worry about. Just like they did for Gustav-Adolph. Failing to produce a better idea I suggest an upgrade to elite for 0-8 of them.

Danish
The German Merc foot pikes can only be unarmoured now, is that intentional? It's a bit of a kilter with other infantry of the time, even from the same list.

[nikgaukroger]

Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed

All still have Pistol impact capability in my version of the lists ../

it is IMO important to replace it with something else to ensure there are 1-2 BGs of Kürassiers that will be set apart from the mass of them as well as give the player of a Swedish army a REAL reason to worry about. Just like they did for Gustav-Adolph. Failing to produce a better idea I suggest an upgrade to elite for 0-8 of them.

Hummmm ...

Danish
The German Merc foot pikes can only be unarmoured now, is that intentional? It's a bit of a kilter with other infantry of the time, even from the same list.

Ta - must have removed them accidentally as they should indeed have them.

[Ghaznavid]

Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed

All still have Pistol impact capability in my version of the lists ../

Yeah, I meant to write Impact Horse, to tired, night shift was kinda lively. So of to bed I go.

[nikgaukroger]

Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed

All still have Pistol impact capability in my version of the lists ../

Yeah, I meant to write Impact Horse, to tired, night shift was kinda lively. So of to bed I go.

Ah, I see what you mean. I'll have a good think about putting an elite cuirassier BG into the lists.