Break-off moves

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:16 pm

We had an unusual break-off move last night and wonder what people think.

A BG of knights winds up charging two enemy BGs, one enemy is forward of the other, so the knights hit one and step forward and hit the other. After the charge and melee the knights have to break off from steady foot.

But, there are some friendly troops behind the knights, very close behind...The knights that stepped forward can break off a bit ore than an MU, the knights that didn't step forward can't break off one MU.

So is it a legal break-off move or is it cancelled and the knights lose a level of cohesion?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:24 pm

IMO the knights lose a cohesion level as they cannot break off a distance of at least 1 MU from enemy.

However this does beg the question how far do mounted break off from enemy if stepped forwards and which enemy?

My own thought has always been a full move from the first they hit as they could still hit those they stepped forwards into by stepping forwards again next time. But I've never found it in the rules.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:34 pm

That is a tough one. Question: if the stepped-forward bases break off at least 1MU, could the other bases make a legal formation with them? Or is the friendly BG behind them too close to permit that?

If the answer is no, then your question is easily resolved for purposes of this game. That still does not answer the deeper question of where the break off comes from. I don't know the answer to that, and I suspect that author input will be required.

Marc

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:36 pm

babyshark wrote:That is a tough one. Question: if the stepped-forward bases break off at least 1MU, could the other bases make a legal formation with them? Or is the friendly BG behind them too close to permit that?

If the answer is no, then your question is easily resolved for purposes of this game. That still does not answer the deeper question of where the break off comes from. I don't know the answer to that, and I suspect that author input will be required.

Marc

Yes, they could make a legal formation after the break off and still have the stepped foward bases break off 1 MU.

ottomanmjm · Post by **ottomanmjm** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:31 pm

I dont have my rules with me at the moment but I would have played it that:
1) The break off move is a normal move and so measure from the furthest fourward base so that no base moves back more than its normal move.
2) To avoid being disrupted by the break off every base must move back at least one 1 MU

So in your example the knights would be disrupted as the knoight base fighting the enemy knights could not move back 1 MU

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:51 am

One other possible twist on this situation.

Were both enemy BGs steady foot? If not, arguably this might change the outcome? Or not...

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:58 pm

Oddly enough had this happen in another game this weekend. I think the key issue is when breaking off do you have to reform into a legal formation as part of the break off move? I don't think you do, so I think you break off in the formation you were fighting, if that formation can go back at least 1 MU you are fine. Then you reform the next time in the turn sequence that you have the opportunity.

I think this is another "follow the turn sequence exactly" situation. You can't reform troops into a "legal" formation at any time you want, only when the turn sequence specifies it.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:12 pm

I think there are a couple of pieces in the rules that you can hang your hat on.

1) The BG must move 1 MU. Does that mean every base, the bases facing the foot, or any base?
2) No reform allowed in turn sequence between end of melee and break off. Since you are in some kind of legal formation when you fight the impact and melee. The break off is every stand and no need be in a smooth line until the next reform.
3) The BG stops moving when it touches friendly or 1 MU from enemy.

There are a lot of variables that may not apply to all situations, that is the wrinkle.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:21 am

ottomanmjm wrote:I dont have my rules with me at the moment but I would have played it that:
1) The break off move is a normal move and so measure from the furthest fourward base so that no base moves back more than its normal move.
2) To avoid being disrupted by the break off every base must move back at least one 1 MU

So in your example the knights would be disrupted as the knoight base fighting the enemy knights could not move back 1 MU

But it can move back 1MU cant it? It just doesnt end up 1mu from an enemy BG but I didnt think that was the requirement.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:16 am

Apparently the stepped forward base could move back at least one MU, the base fighting the knights could not move back at least 1 MU disordering the entire battlegroup, guess who won't be too popular at royal court after that fiasco?