First List Book - progress

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:23 pm

[Edited by RBS 1/12/09]

The lists in RED are drafted although contents may change with discussion, the rest we are needing drafts.

FoGR1 – Wars of Religion

1. Scots Covenanter 1639-1652
2. Early Caroline English 1625-1643
3. Early ECW Royalist 1642-1646
4. Parliamentarian 1642-1646
5. Irish Confederate 1641-1652
6. Later ECW Royalist 1643-1646
7. Scots Royalist 1644-1646
8. New Model 1645-1660
9. Later Eighty Years War Dutch 1592-1648
10. Low Country Spanish 1609-1659
11. German Catholic 1618-1631
12. German Catholic 1632-1648
13. German Protestant 1618-1648
14. Transylvanian 1618-1629
15. Danish 1611-1645
16. Thirty Years War Swedish 1630-1634
17. Swedish 1635-1648
18. Early 17th Century French 1600-1634
19. Thirty Years War French 1635-1648
20. Early Louis XIV French 1648-1661

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:12 pm

Expect lists 11-15 (although the Transylvanians are excempted from within the week).

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:33 am

Karsten that is great news - very much apprciated.

John M expects to have the Scots Royalist by the end of the week as well which will mean we have most of the first book drafted

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:35 am

Progress list edited

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:33 pm

Progress list edited

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Ok, I've found some info on the Irish so will get round to that list next week probably.

Karsten I hope will still supply a Transylvanian.

Xavier was going to do a Portuguese to add to the running order.

I think that will then round off this book in terms of contents and we will need to get the nitty gritty of the lists sorted and their historical blurb

Sound right to everyone?

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:21 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Karsten I hope will still supply a Transylvanian.

I think I've most of the pieces and will try to assemble the puzzle at the weekend.
Just not sure how to classify Vampire led Zombie legions.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:58 pm

Are the zombie legions ready to be included yet?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:06 pm

Progress list edited

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:37 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Are the zombie legions ready to be included yet?

Just send, I did shorten the period to 1626 though. There is no notable action from a Hungarian-Transylvanian Army after Bethlen agreed to the 3rd peace treaty between him and the Habsburgs in late December 1626. He only died in 1629, true, but his health was failing earlier.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:45 am

Ghaznavid wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:Are the zombie legions ready to be included yet?
Just send, I did shorten the period to 1626 though. There is no notable action from a Hungarian-Transylvanian Army after Bethlen agreed to the 3rd peace treaty between him and the Habsburgs in late December 1626. He only died in 1629, true, but his health was failing earlier.

Cool

I think there was some co-operation between the Transylvanians and Swedes in the 1640s when the latter pushed towards Prague and Vienna, but that may only require an allied list.

On the other hand to cover ourselves would there be any real issue in assuming the army would be more or less the same until c. 1648?

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:35 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
Ghaznavid wrote: Just send, I did shorten the period to 1626 though. There is no notable action from a Hungarian-Transylvanian Army after Bethlen agreed to the 3rd peace treaty between him and the Habsburgs in late December 1626. He only died in 1629, true, but his health was failing earlier.
Cool

I think there was some co-operation between the Transylvanians and Swedes in the 1640s when the latter pushed towards Prague and Vienna, but that may only require an allied list.

On the other hand to cover ourselves would there be any real issue in assuming the army would be more or less the same until c. 1648?

Well I assumed (from the original dates) the list was intended to cover for Gabor Bethlens armies only. If you restrict the Tercios timewise, phase out the lancers after 1626-28, and remove the arquebuse armed peasants after 1626 it should be pretty ok for István Gabor and Georg I. Rákóczi* at least till the peace of Linz in December 1645.
I'm not sure if there was any actual cooperation between Georg I and the swedes though, didn't pay attention to that. If necessary I will try to find out.

* allied with both Sweden and France from 1643, permitting him to conquer most of Hungary.

BTW as you might notice I rechristend the list Hungarian-Tranylvanian. Tranyslvanian seems to much of a misnomer. The leaders of those aries were the Fürsten von Siebenbürgen (dukes of Transylvania), true. Many of their troops came from other parts of Hungary though.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:51 am

Ghaznavid wrote: Well I assumed (from the original dates) the list was intended to cover for Gabor Bethlens armies only. If you restrict the Tercios timewise, phase out the lancers after 1626-28, and remove the arquebuse armed peasants after 1626 it should be pretty ok for István Gabor and Georg I. Rákóczi* at least till the peace of Linz in December 1645.

* allied with both Sweden and France from 1643, permitting him to conquer most of Hungary.

I'll do that as a start.

I'm not sure if there was any actual cooperation between Georg I and the Swedes though, didn't pay attention to that. If necessary I will try to find out.

I think I found a brief cooperation in the 1640s in "Europes Tragedy" - think I put an ally in the Swedish list that is allowed around then.

BTW as you might notice I rechristend the list Hungarian-Tranylvanian. Tranyslvanian seems to much of a misnomer. The leaders of those aries were the Fürsten von Siebenbürgen (dukes of Transylvania), true. Many of their troops came from other parts of Hungary though.

The file you sent me had "Transylvanian and Hungarian" would you prefer "Hungarian-Transylvanian" ? Either is fine by me.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:08 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
BTW as you might notice I rechristend the list Hungarian-Tranylvanian. Tranyslvanian seems to much of a misnomer. The leaders of those aries were the Fürsten von Siebenbürgen (dukes of Transylvania), true. Many of their troops came from other parts of Hungary though.
The file you sent me had "Transylvanian and Hungarian" would you prefer "Hungarian-Transylvanian" ? Either is fine by me.

Oops

Bah, what's in a name (nothing I can remember for more then a few hours surely).
Hungarian-Transylvanian might actually be better though, as the other one sounds a bit as if the list actually contains two sublists.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:43 pm

Hungarian-Transylvanian it is then

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:20 pm

Progress list updated. All red, hooray.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:01 am

Can everyone please have a look at the lists to see if there are any remaining issues with how troops are classified, etc. or if I have created any with recent editing.

Also identification of any inadvertant creation of "super lists" or combinations similar to the Dom Roms is a priority.

I want this to be, if possible, the last round of major classification revision so that I can then concentrate on making sure the points are correct, blurbs, etc.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:05 am

nikgaukroger wrote:I want this to be, if possible, the last round of major classification revision so that I can then concentrate on making sure the points are correct, blurbs, etc.

Nik, have you yet looked at the overall minima and maxima? I was planning to take a look this as soon as time permits.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:12 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:I want this to be, if possible, the last round of major classification revision so that I can then concentrate on making sure the points are correct, blurbs, etc.

Nik, have you yet looked at the overall minima and maxima? I was planning to take a look this as soon as time permits.

Only casually. I was planning to do it when checking that the points values are correct. Are we operating to the same sorts of rules as we did with FoG:AM?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:04 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:I want this to be, if possible, the last round of major classification revision so that I can then concentrate on making sure the points are correct, blurbs, etc.

Nik, have you yet looked at the overall minima and maxima? I was planning to take a look this as soon as time permits.

Only casually. I was planning to do it when checking that the points values are correct. Are we operating to the same sorts of rules as we did with FoG:AM?

I think so.

These are the rules we used for FOGAM lists:

The minima in a list should not exceed 250 points at any date, not including commanders.

The maxima in a list should be at least 1150 points excluding commanders, artillery, fortifications and fortified camps. This should apply at the date offering the smallest total of troops. It doesn’t matter if the total maxima goes higher at other dates. One should, of course, avoid increasing the number of minority types beyond what could reasonably be fielded proportionately as part of a 1000 point army (allowing for commanders). All troop numbers are proportional to the size of the whole army and not based on absolute historical numbers.

Ally lists minima and maxima are very loosely based on the same proportions as in DBM.

The only thing I would change is that as artillery is much more useful (and prevalent) in FOGR than in FOGAM it should be included in the 1150 points.

Starter armies are supposed to be 600 points or just under. Usually including 1 FC and 2 TCs unless there is an GC or some other reason to do it differently.

As for the starter army template, if you did not already sent Mike Kroon one, I was waiting to see if he came up with anything better than what we used for FOGAM.