Nikephorian Spear/Bow Foot Alternative

PaulByzan · Post by **PaulByzan** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:37 am

After reviewing Blood and Gold, I have to say I really like the foot units with Bw*, LS or IF/Swordsmen. It occurs to me that this might have been one of the ways to represent Nikephorian Spear Unts as Bw*, defensive spears. I know the tagmatic cav is like that but never thought of it for the foot troops. Just curious, was this ever considered as an option?

Paul G.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:01 am

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:45 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Yes.

helpful as ever.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:55 am

It would make the front rank MF then, which would be worse I would think.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:07 pm

philqw78 wrote:It would make the front rank MF then, which would be worse I would think.

I think the extra POA for the two ranks of spear would more than make up for being MF and the extra movement would be nice as well. On the other hand I have problems picturing historical Byzantine skutatoi blithely fighting in bad terrain like pure MF BGs could. So on the whole I suspect the current model is better in terms of accuracy if not in game effectiveness terms.

Chris

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:57 pm

batesmotel wrote:
philqw78 wrote:It would make the front rank MF then, which would be worse I would think.
I think the extra POA for the two ranks of spear would more than make up for being MF and the extra movement would be nice as well. On the other hand I have problems picturing historical Byzantine skutatoi blithely fighting in bad terrain like pure MF BGs could. So on the whole I suspect the current model is better in terms of accuracy if not in game effectiveness terms.

Also need to consider that Bow* don't get support shooting in the impact phase.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:16 pm

expendablecinc wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:Yes.
helpful as ever.

One does ones best when answering to answer the question asked

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:56 pm

Does anyone run pre-Crusades Byzantines to effect? I have not noticed any prominence in the tourney results.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:39 am

Skullzgrinda wrote:Does anyone run pre-Crusades Byzantines to effect? I have not noticed any prominence in the tourney results.

Nope. IMO Bw* dont do enough damage to make it count and being lancers are tempted into charging before they get a chance to shoot. The foot is rubbish combared to other HF out there and the nikephorian bow dont get enough dice to win a shootout.

Some bright spark will prove me wrong but to me all they have going for them is that they are all drilled so I think that making optimal use of thier drilled status is the only way to win with them. Othwise you are playing with a smaller frontage and less bite.

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:12 am

This is consistent with what I have heard elsewhere.

Unfortunate, given the epic history and magnificent appearance of the Byzantine armies.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:00 am

Skullzgrinda wrote:Does anyone run pre-Crusades Byzantines to effect? I have not noticed any prominence in the tourney results.

Nikephorian: First at Usk, third at Britcon, 4th at Roll Call in their period.

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:06 am

philqw78 wrote:
Skullzgrinda wrote:Does anyone run pre-Crusades Byzantines to effect? I have not noticed any prominence in the tourney results.
Nikephorian: First at Usk, third at Britcon, 4th at Roll Call in their period.

How were they run? Were they combined arms or run as a cavalry army? This is encouraging.

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:26 pm

Skullzgrinda wrote: How were they run? Were they combined arms or run as a cavalry army? This is encouraging.

The Britcon and possibly relevant Usk lists are here:

http://madaxeman.com/wiki2/tiki-index.p ... +Byzantine

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:49 pm

The list used by me and Hammy at Usk is the bottom one. It should have had 2 BG of 6 bow and 2 BG of 6 Jav, giving 1 more BG, but hammy likes Bow in 8's, so it had 3 BGs of 8 Bow. RBS missed the mistakle when the list was entered.

Main tactic was to follow the Varangian Guard

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 pm

philqw78 wrote:The list used by me and Hammy at Usk is the bottom one. It should have had 2 BG of 6 bow and 2 BG of 6 Jav, giving 1 more BG, but hammy likes Bow in 8's, so it had 3 BGs of 8 Bow. RBS missed the mistakle when the list was entered.

Oh aye, it's all my fault. Nothing to do with the person who drew up the list in the first place.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:24 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:Oh aye, it's all my fault. Nothing to do with the person who drew up the list in the first place.

Glad you take your responsibilities seriously Richard instead of sloping your shoulders like some others would.

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:46 pm

Thank you for the links and info, gentlemen.