Further to my post on some scenarios with issues, I am having a big issue with skirmishers, and it seems maybe the problem got increased after the patch (but it could be my imagination).
1) Skirmishers won't flee if they think they can beat the opponent charging in
2) Unfortantely they will stand and then become targets of more enemy skirmishers or heavier troops.
3) In some cases they will flee when engaged with a skirmisher and charged by a heavier troop. However in some cases they will not. I don't see any logic to it.
4) So far in too many of my games too many units being killed are skirmishers caught because of above. Having better skirmishers is an extreme disadvantage, as they can be caught easier.
I'd like some info on the logic (why do they evade sometimes from heavies and why not in others) and to know if this is going to be improved.....It's really the only drag on this game.....
Skirmisher Issues
Moderators: Slitherine Core, FoG PC Moderator, NewRoSoft
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IainMcNeil
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They will evade if they have less than even chance of winning./ It seems there is still a bug allowing them to evade sometimes but we've not got a repeatable case. If you can set up situations where it occurs we'd like to see the saved game so we can track it down. Is it when they are disrupted, fragmented, outnumbered? Any clues would be good to spot a pattern.
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IainMcNeil
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CharlesRobinson
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Not always engaged
What I think some may be confused with is that if you move forward following a routed unit and make contact with another unit you stop but with skirmishers you are not engaged. You get a grey arrow instead of a red arrow. The next turn it checks to see if the unit will evade or stay and fight. 
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keithmartinsmith
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Let me give you an example of a game today.
My opponent Roman, i charge with Carthage light skirmisher, the Roman velite doesn't evade but stands to fight (cause he thinks he will win the combat against the non armored Cartha Skirmisher) since the Velite is stuck in combat i attack with other nearby units.
Therefore because the Velite is a better skirmisher it can be pinned down in this manner routinely.
Just something i've noticed in my games so far.
Was this the intent?
My opponent Roman, i charge with Carthage light skirmisher, the Roman velite doesn't evade but stands to fight (cause he thinks he will win the combat against the non armored Cartha Skirmisher) since the Velite is stuck in combat i attack with other nearby units.
Therefore because the Velite is a better skirmisher it can be pinned down in this manner routinely.
Just something i've noticed in my games so far.
Was this the intent?
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keithmartinsmith
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It was the intention that if you put your light foot out in charge range of the enemies, then if they charge you and your LF think they can win they will stand and fight and will be pinned. Then if you opponent can then catch you with something stronger such as cavalry they can charge you and you will not evade.
The is a high risk strategy for both sides as both sides could lose their skirmishers and your heavier troops usually end up to pursuing them into their own oblivion!
Its is a matter of tactics of what combo's are best for the best results.
The AI rarely takes too many such risks other than with javelinmen and does its best to do all its shooting at long range so it cannot fall prey to this!
Historically the lights tended to bash each other up before the main event.
Keith
The is a high risk strategy for both sides as both sides could lose their skirmishers and your heavier troops usually end up to pursuing them into their own oblivion!
Its is a matter of tactics of what combo's are best for the best results.
The AI rarely takes too many such risks other than with javelinmen and does its best to do all its shooting at long range so it cannot fall prey to this!
Historically the lights tended to bash each other up before the main event.
Keith
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CharlesRobinson
- Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
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I do see a point of theirs.
I do see a point of theirs. A good example is the Roman Civil War with Pompey vs Ceaser. If the person playing Ceaser is to timid with his legonaries then the Pompey forces can wipe out Ceasers skirmishers, medium infantry, and even cavalry in short order without risking their oun legionaries. In a current game I have taken 4 break points but my opponent has taken 31 break points (I have not eliminated a single unit of legionaries). This meens that I will then be free to concentrate my ranged fire on specific legionaries until they break and I end up winning with minimal fuss and losses or if they advance I can afford to take the losses needed to take out the couple of legionaries that I need for a win. When playing Ceaser I (as an experienced FoG Gamer) know that my Heavy Infantry is far superior to his and I press the attack right away (also realising that I cannot hope to match his skirmishers and cavalry assets). I think that new players to both the PC Game and the FoG Miniature game will have some catch up time for tactics and once they understand this more, they will no longer have an issue with this rule since they will understand the over all tactics better and be able to assess an opponents army. This is where the game designers, with lots of experience with a game, can accidently loose perspective with customers that have no idea about the game. Just some general thoughts and rambling.
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Historically the lights tended to bash each other up before the main event.
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The problem is, as in Phasalus a very good strategy for Pompei is to catch some of the Caesarian skirmishers and kill them to break Caesar's army without engaging the legions (or minimal engagement)...Pompei has the weaker skirmishers backed up by Cav to do the job.....(I usually find myself needing to play safe with the Elite legions and Cav on this flank or they can be overwhelmed as Caesar).
In the table top game Historical results are achieved by having the evade option meaning that no skirmisher would stand and fight with heavies near, so you do end up with a pre-skirmish battle and then the lights evading away once the heavy stuff comes into play. The attrition points are set so that no one will "throw away" skirmishers. In the PC game it is (IMHO) too easy to trick a skirmisher into standing......Many of my FOG PC games are decided by casaulties among the various skirmishers....often the player with the better skirmishers will be forced to run them away more so than the player with the lesser skirmishers.....
Again - overall I like the game and will continue to play. What you have done with the Multiplayer ease of use is great. Only rating a B+ due to this issue (and the fact I want more Scenarios / Starter battles / army options!)
Historically the lights tended to bash each other up before the main event.
-----------------------
The problem is, as in Phasalus a very good strategy for Pompei is to catch some of the Caesarian skirmishers and kill them to break Caesar's army without engaging the legions (or minimal engagement)...Pompei has the weaker skirmishers backed up by Cav to do the job.....(I usually find myself needing to play safe with the Elite legions and Cav on this flank or they can be overwhelmed as Caesar).
In the table top game Historical results are achieved by having the evade option meaning that no skirmisher would stand and fight with heavies near, so you do end up with a pre-skirmish battle and then the lights evading away once the heavy stuff comes into play. The attrition points are set so that no one will "throw away" skirmishers. In the PC game it is (IMHO) too easy to trick a skirmisher into standing......Many of my FOG PC games are decided by casaulties among the various skirmishers....often the player with the better skirmishers will be forced to run them away more so than the player with the lesser skirmishers.....
Again - overall I like the game and will continue to play. What you have done with the Multiplayer ease of use is great. Only rating a B+ due to this issue (and the fact I want more Scenarios / Starter battles / army options!)
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CharlesRobinson
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The other side of the coin
The other side of the coin is that the skirmishers become to powerful. Interesting issue.
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keithmartinsmith
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Like the TT your skirmishers can choose to avoid being caught by staying out of range of anything they do not wish to fight. The only troops where this is harder is javelinmen but then again on the table top take them to javelin range and they get killed by LH.
In the PC game you do have the choice of risk level and can generally avoid being caught but it does reduce the light troops effectiveness. On the TT LF with bow can always stay at long range and usually shoot and never get caught.
The PC game has a lot of nuances and there is still much to learn about the best way to use all the troop types. Not just LF.
Keith
In the PC game you do have the choice of risk level and can generally avoid being caught but it does reduce the light troops effectiveness. On the TT LF with bow can always stay at long range and usually shoot and never get caught.
The PC game has a lot of nuances and there is still much to learn about the best way to use all the troop types. Not just LF.
Keith