Thracian Army

[Valhalla]

Hi everyone

Well I am currently very interested in this army. I like the Heavy Weapons, the MF Offensive Spearmen, and of course, all their miniatures, their culture, and everything. The thing is that I'm not so sure about their FoG performance. I mean, barbarian armies aren't usually that good, and are easily beaten by more disciplined armies, with drilled troops, or phalanxes, or something else.

I mean, yes you can have a lot of troops and rear support (BTW, I'm not so sure how it works, I can't find it anywhere, but in p135 of the Rulebook... and it doesn't say WHAT it actually does hahaha, if somebody has the number of page where it is explained, I'd really appreciate it ), but they can not compete with the Phalanx, and you just can't sit in the terrain waiting for the enemy to come for you.
I also don't like the idea of "upgrading" the Thracians to armoured and drilled, because I would feel like they're not essentialy Thracians hahaha, and adding greeks, well, I don't really know about that.

What tactics have you used with this army? Is it possible to win against Phalanxes or Romans? (or any other disciplined army) Would you take 1/2 Offensive Spearmen and 1/2 Heavy Weapon? Do you think its competitive? Is it fun to play it? (sometimes people get bored of using Undrilled barbarian type armies) And well, any more ideas or thoughts on this army would be great.

Thanks in advance

[Robert241167]

Hi Valhalla

I see you have found the explanation of Rear Support on P135 but if you check the Cohesion Test on the reference sheets at the back of the book you will see you get a +1 for it.

Rob

[timmy1]

Valhalla, are you Chris Webber under an assumed name? Chris has written some very interesting things about Thracians under FoG in Slingshot (265 IIRC). I recommend you look that out. I don't entirely agree with Chris's conclusions but he has a very good set of arguements.

[Skullzgrinda]

I will follow this thread with interest as I am very tempted with the Dacians and their Sarmatian friends . . .

[timmy1]

Sarmatians, now you are getting really interesting...

[Skullzgrinda]

I am very much in the "Hairies" camp of wargaming.

Dacians with Sarmatian allies, and Huns with German allies, look promising.

I am a Rip van Winkle getting back up to speed though . . .

I even have to wear reading glasses now.

[timmy1]

Not me, I am much more a Romans / Late Swiss type of man. However any Roman enemies up to 224 AD interest me.

[will05]

Hi
I am currently trying to paint my Thracian army. I have 60 horses to paint and am about 18 down, with about 2 BG's of medium foot done.

So I haven't played them yet, and I think that it will be difficult to win with them as they don't have staying power in the centre. I have read the articles in Slingshot and they have been very helpful to me. The army I am building has a lot of shooty LH, so it will be an interesting hybrid between medium foot army and LH army. Not sure if it will work though. When this army is done I can cotinue building Medium and light foot BG's to allow for a more foot hillmen type of army.

I will try using Greek allies as the 10,000. The Greeks were constantly involved with theThracians and this would give another interesting morph I think.

Mostly though I like the look of them, and they should be a nice looking army when done. 'When done' being the point here as I don't expect this to be anytime soon. I just hope they come together quicker than my Macedonians.

So when I am in my nineties I might have got all the armies together for a post Peloponesian war campaign.
Will

[timmy1]

Will

You might find them a little more successful than you imagine. If you can use the Thracian Peltasts with the Macedonians they are a VERY good army. In period NOTHING beats Thracian Peltasts in nasty terrain. Indeed you probably have to go 11th century Guhlams before they are bested. I know from personal experience that getting Thracian Peltasts out of difficult going is almost impossible. If you can pair them with Theurophi (sp?) they make a very tough combination.

[Valhalla]

Thanks everyone for all the replies , and I'm glad to read that some of you like Thracians too. In fact I've always loved hairy barbarians... the thing is that they are never really effective under wargaming rules, but I use them anyway.
Special thanks for the reply about Rear Support, I'm pretty noob at FoG

About the Slingshot articles, unfortunately, I can't access to them (unless they're on the official webpage or anything) because I'm from Argentina, and there is no Slingshot, and it's even hard to get the FoG books... but if I can get the 265 number, I'll surely read it.

I'd really like to hear some thoughts from people who play with this army, specially about all the things I asked...

Timmy, pairing them with Thureophoroi is only possible if you use Macedonians, or even Bosporan lists, but in the Thracian list you can also have MF Offensive Spearmen (although not drilled), and I think that can be a great combination.

[Sadista]

I have used the Thracians in 2 competitions and have achieved a 2nd and 3rd placing.
IC is important for initiative however I run with 8 LH so open tables are not my enemy.
I also upgrade some of the foot to roman aux, the remainder as Hvy weapon as this is all i have to fight knights (open competitions)

It is a fast moving army that relies on breaking up your enemy before it can strike as it cant take on armies frontally.

[philqw78]

.....however I run with 8 LH so open tables are not my enemy...

8 BG of LH or just 8 LH?

[Sadista]

8 BG's

IC
2x TC
5 x LH Jav LgtSp
3 x LH Bow
6 x 4 MF Arm LgtSp Sw
3 x 6 MF Prot HvyW
2 x 6 LF Sling
1 x 6 LF Jav Lgt Sp

[timmy1]

Valhalla

You can get a whole year of Slingshot magazine for GBP 20.00 by joining the Society of Ancients, if you join in the next few days you can get the 2009 magazines which include Chris Webber's articles and a 2010 subscription for just GBP 40.00 (that is about 250 Argentine Pesos) post free, paying by Paypal. The link to subscribe is at

http://www.soa.org.uk/store/

Regards
Tim

[gozerius]

I use Thracians a lot as most of my opponents have Classical armies, and Thracians was what I went with as a change from my usual Knight, spear, crossbow armies. I use plenty of LH and LF. My main line is MF/HW backed by the cav, with a screen of skirmishers out front and the LH and extra LF working the flanks. Works well against everyonee but Alexander for some reason. I am working on some OSp as well. No allies, no Romans, NO domesticated Thracians. Just real certified free range Thracians.

[philqw78]

8 BG's

5 x LH Jav LgtSp
3 x LH Bow
6 x 4 MF Arm LgtSp Sw
3 x 6 MF Prot HvyW
2 x 6 LF Sling
1 x 6 LF Jav Lgt Sp

Ah, the Morally Bankrupt Thracian.

[timmy1]

Phil

Would you like to suggest a MLMBT list, that keeps the PBI of +4?

[philqw78]

Phil

Would you like to suggest a MLMBT list, that keeps the PBI of +4?

Anything with multiple BG of roman Auxilia is morally bankrupt. In fact anything Roman pre Basil the Bulgar Basher is morally bankrupt.

[Valhalla]

Valhalla

You can get a whole year of Slingshot magazine for GBP 20.00 by joining the Society of Ancients, if you join in the next few days you can get the 2009 magazines which include Chris Webber's articles and a 2010 subscription for just GBP 40.00 (that is about 250 Argentine Pesos) post free, paying by Paypal. The link to subscribe is at

http://www.soa.org.uk/store/

Regards
Tim

Well, that's really great, I'll see if I can manage to do it , thanks a lot.

I use Thracians a lot as most of my opponents have Classical armies, and Thracians was what I went with as a change from my usual Knight, spear, crossbow armies. I use plenty of LH and LF. My main line is MF/HW backed by the cav, with a screen of skirmishers out front and the LH and extra LF working the flanks. Works well against everyonee but Alexander for some reason. I am working on some OSp as well. No allies, no Romans, NO domesticated Thracians. Just real certified free range Thracians.

This is what I'm talking about!

Although sometimes I look at the Classical Greek Mercenary allies tempting, but I think the most satisfaction must come from winning with a MF barbarian undrilled army. Why doesn't that tactic fit against Alexandrian Macedonian? I suppose it's not good to charge the Phalanxes frontally before disrupting them... but maybe if the Phalanxes are isolated?
Maybe using the Offensive Spear thracians as the battle line, with a screen of LF and backed by HW, some heavy Cav to give punch, and the LH in the flanks? I think I'll maybe try the Getae, as they're bow armed, and I prefer it that way. The thing is that the HW and the Off Sp will always be at disadvantage against the Phalanxes, so maybe shooting them first?

Do you use rear support, or you increase the width of the battle line? Do you have many problems with the thracians being undrilled? I mean, of course it's better Drilled, but any major complications?

[expendablecinc]

My next army is going to be MF based and quite similar to pure thracians samnites etc....

Loads of superior drilled MF (4 BGs of 8 bases)
- offensive spearmen
- bow
- unprotected heavy weapon
A few BGs of protected defensive spearmen
Some undrilled light foot
no Mounted!

I think there is a decent, interesting army in the sumerians.

The problem is with so many figs to paint its going to be a bit of a bland look.

The aim will be to push forwards as fast as possible letting skirmishers take bowfire enabling the protected and unprotected troops to get to grips with enemy mounted.
Anchor off the defensive spear in the case of an open table but otherwise push forward through any large terrain is possible
Take an IC to soak up the inevitable missile CTs and hope to lose initiative.