Defensive Spear vs. Pikes

[Stiglitz]

Hello,

my grip on the rules is not very good yet and so I have a question.

Especially in medieval armies there is often the infantry defensive spear. Sometimes it becomes pikes in a later period. Later medieval german for example.

I noticed that a defensive spear unit is not much cheaper point-wise than pikes, more expensive, when it is armoured.

Let's take a unit of 6 defensive spear, armoured, drilled, heavy foot for 54 points (42, if only protected). Compared to 8 pikes, protected, drilled, heavy foot for 48 points.

From my feelings, I had always prefered the pikes. Where is my mistake?

Let's look at the pros and cons as far as I see them.

The pikes are shock troops! Advantage, when the win the impact against foot, but they have to make a test not to charge.

[Stiglitz]

Impact and combat: So long as there are no losses, the pikes are one + up against most opponents, two ++ if charging in the impact.
Losses let the pikes loose one of the + really fast. But if the spears loose, they are loosing the advantage of being in two ranks (assuming they are 3 bases wide).

Shooting: armoured spears have an advantage against most missiles (not vs. longbow). But the pikes count the bases of three ranks and have a narrower frontage. A slight advantage.

Maneuverability: I'm not sure about it, but I think that the narrower frontage makes the pikes more maneuverable though the larger unit. Wheeling is faster and the 90 degrees turn let them stand in good formation.

Frontage: Here is the big advantage of the spears! They can stand 3 bases wide with full combat potential.


Still, I don't see the advantage of defensive spear (or offensive spears, btw. being more expensive) over pikes.
I think I overlook something. Any help?

[hammy]

The pikes do indeed have an advantage at impact but if they do not inflict damage on the spears then if the spear are armoured the pike will be in big trouble in melee.

Looking at the combat in isolation the pike get 4 dice on 4 vs the spear 4 on 5 at impact. If the pike disrupt the spear at impact then the melee will be 4 dice on 4 vs 4 dice on 4 so the spear look OK. If the spear remain steady and at full strenght the melee is very much in favour of the spear.

Remember that the points system is there to value troops as an overall package, not specific matchups.

Consider Romans vs Gauls. The Romans have just got the edge everywhere and if the Gauls were umprotected impact foot with no swordsmen they would be just as effective against the Romans but they would be far worse against a lot of other opponents.

I would not want to rely on defensive spear as my offensive arm but in the right place armoured defensive spear are really really good.

[deadtorius]

One downside to pikes is if the pike block ends up on its own you can easily be overlapped by enemy, then assuming you survive impact and remain steady you might find your self with 4 dice versus 6 or even 8 dice depending on the overlap situation. Pikes have to be kept together to try and avoid those overlap situations. They are tough untis and in many games my pikes have taken a severe beating and have held, its just that narrow frontage that is their weakness.

Also you will likely find pikes will be forced to take cohesion tests from shooting more often then 8 spear in 2 ranks, since the shooter needs to hit the pikes twice as opposed to three hits vesus the spear unit.

[Stiglitz]

Thanks for the answers so far...

The subject was badly formulated, I didn't mean it as a match up between pikes and spears but thought about the overall pros and cons of the units...

But from your answers I see already, that the wider frontage of the 6 base spear unit is a much bigger advantage than I thought. I think now it is clear for me...

(By the way, another advantage of spears about pikes: less models to paint )