Leaders with an autobreaking unit

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:23 am

Had a situation this evening where my opponents superior cav was reduced to 1 while his general was involved. Now MADCAMs unit gets removed at the end of the joint action phase. The unit did not route nor did the general receive the 10+ roll for capture. The unit was removed BUT the general was not. Was this done correctly.... I just don't TRUST MADCAM's claim of being 99.9% right anymore.....

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:38 am

Yes, I rolled 1s for every single death roll I took....

Very wierd situation. A BG is reduced to a single base but was not frag/routed. It being still in combat, the general was unable to leave it due to the turn sequence.

My opponent rolled for the initial commander loss from melee, missed. Move commanders comes first, then remove autobroken BGs. We played no 10+ roll since there was no pursuit and the general was left in the position ready for the next movement phase...

Madcam.

(still waiting on the anwer on BG and leaders from my other post... Would be nice to see it answered...)

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:44 am

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:53 am

madcam2us wrote:My opponent rolled for the initial commander loss from melee, missed. Move commanders comes first, then remove autobroken BGs. We played no 10+ roll since there was no pursuit and the general was left in the position ready for the next movement phase...

(I'm finding this extremely frustrating to type an answer as the box keeps jiggling up and down. Please excuse errors in formatting).

He isn't broken until he loses that base (follow the sequence on P168). So, in this instance:
1 - cohesion test for losing combat (if relevant). He may stay steady (which is what it looks like to me)
2 - death roll (you then may lose a base and autobreak). It sounds like he autobroke through this instance, however if you look at the combat sequence in detail I think he loses commander on an 11 or 12 determined on whether he won or los the combat, and then only if he took 2 or more casualties (p99 second column first point).
3 - The unit is broken. There isn't any other way around it. The commander is with a combat unit that broke.
4 - Cohesion tests of units within 3 MU of that unit then test for seeing a friendly unit break with the possibility of having an additional - for seeing a general buy the farm.
5 - What's left of the unit then routs and makes VMD's. If they are caught the commander can die on a 10 (p109 first column second point).

Then you do the JAP, and the unit is removed.

Make sense?

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:01 pm

If the general was witrh a Superior or Elite BG two base BG then the BG would be removed at the end of the JAP without auto-breaking. If the BG does auto-break then it would be treated like any other route and the general would move with the BG with the usual chance of death roll for the general if pursuers stay in contact. In either of these cases, if the general survives after the BG is removed, then the general consensus on this in another thread of a similar subject seemed to be that the general would need to be able to move to join another friendly BG as mentioned in the rules if he can be charged or shot at. (No rules author ever answered the other thread so this was never completely confirmed as the correct procedure.)

Chris

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:30 pm

If the unit was reduced to one base it is autobroken. The one base routs in that phase. This is no different to a break caused by failing cohesion tests.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:42 pm

98.5% it appears

LOL

Madcam.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:28 pm

madcam2us wrote:98.5% it appears

LOL

Madcam.

Mwahahahaha!

Marc

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:20 pm

My understanding is this,
the unit will auto break but must still make a normal rout move with pursuits if any pursuers.
P 50 last bullet If a battle groups move would take it into contact or shooting range of an enemy commander who is not with a battle group, he must immediately move (in any phase or turn) to join a freindly battle group, if there is one within his normal move distance. If not, he does not move and is immediately lost. It is not neccesay for the enemy to declare a charge on him, nor hlast their move at the point of contact.
I believe this would cover a general stranded in the case of an auto break as well.
The battlegroup will be removed at the end of the JAP

So you get 1 chance to make a dash for safety or try to stay far away from the enemy and slink back to a nearby friendly unit.
Hope that helped.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:40 pm

I am in 100% agreement with you. In all cases where the general has not been killed via dice rolls... he will have 1 chance to move to a friendly unit after the route and removal of the unit who he was attached. If none are within range then he is lost. Will this be the interp that will be used at events??

TERRYFROMSPOKANE · Post by **TERRYFROMSPOKANE** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:52 pm

From page 50 "If a BG's move would take it into contact or within shooting range of an enemy commander who is not with a battle group, he must immediately move...to join a friendly BG...If not, he does not move and is immediately lost."

It seems to me if he is with a BG that routs but breaks contact with pursuers during an earlier phase, he can simply move away during the JAP while the BG he was with continues its rout. The rule on page 50 would then apply during the next enemy Movement Phase.

Terry G.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:09 pm

98.5% it appears

I'm impressed it's still as high as that.

Looks like he got you again Mike.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:14 pm

TERRYFROMSPOKANE wrote:From page 50 "If a BG's move would take it into contact or within shooting range of an enemy commander who is not with a battle group, he must immediately move...to join a friendly BG...If not, he does not move and is immediately lost."

It seems to me if he is with a BG that routs but breaks contact with pursuers during an earlier phase, he can simply move away during the JAP while the BG he was with continues its rout. The rule on page 50 would then apply during the next enemy Movement Phase.

Terry G.

I was refering to units that have broken and are trapped and or are still in contact when the unit disintergrates. The general will not be destroyed unless he cannot find a friendly nearby. If the unit breaks contact and the unit is removed then he will remain onboard.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:19 pm

petedalby wrote:
98.5% it appears
I'm impressed it's still as high as that.

Looks like he got you again Mike.

Remember Pete, Scott's memory is slightly asqued, ie just like a female he only remembers what he wants to remember and will never admit his faults.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:14 pm

But my intent was pure....

for that... give me a nobel....

Madcam

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:15 pm

madcam2us wrote:But my intent was pure....

for that... give me a noble....

Madcam

96.5... is it not Nobel???? hmmmm....

Leaders with an autobreaking unit

Leaders with an autobreaking unit

Re: Leaders with an autobreaking unit