Charging the front of bases already engaged frontally

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:37 pm

In impact, anyone capable of charging can charge. When you conform, then things need to match up.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:03 am

I cannot see any reason under the rules why the elephants cannot charge.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:42 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:I cannot see any reason under the rules why the elephants cannot charge.

I see why page 53 you say this. It appears to be literally allowed. My concern is does it start to allow cheese or because of the conforming rules it won't happen often enough.

.EEE
1223

E is an enemy BG. SAy romans a few wide.

My BG 1 and 3 charge. They can't conform because 2 is enough forward that it can't be shifted sideways as it would push the other BG in contact out of contact to overlap.

Then a few rounds of Melee. And 2 can now impact again.
After that there will be some conforming.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:54 pm

Strikes me as rather artificial construct. It requires one side to have 3 BGs vs one + the single BG needs to be all alone (as otherwise their is most likely some conforming going to happen anyway), also 2 shouldn't be shock or the whole thing might come to naught because 2 decides to charge together with 1 & 3. In that situation it might actually be more effective to charge with 2 and move 1 & 3 into the flanks of E.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:01 pm

Ghaznavid wrote:Strikes me as rather artificial construct. It requires one side to have 3 BGs vs one + the single BG needs to be all alone (as otherwise their is most likely some conforming going to happen anyway), also 2 shouldn't be shock or the whole thing might come to naught because 2 decides to charge together with 1 & 3. In that situation it might actually be more effective to charge with 2 and move 1 & 3 into the flanks of E.

i agree but more what does this open?

countadam · Post by **countadam** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:06 pm

From what I can see, the rules do not prevent the charge.

So, not only can you charge, you should charge. If you do not, you will be forced to conform with your LH in the movement phase.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:48 am

The rules do not prohibit charging the front of bases counting as fighting to their front. Does this mean that if in a line of unconformed troops when one BG breaks and flees, the pursuing BG automatically counts the adjacent enemy BG, which is partially in front of the unconformed pursuer, as contacted, therefore charged? COOL! One more reason to cling to page 87!!!!

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:46 am

gozerius wrote:The rules do not prohibit charging the front of bases counting as fighting to their front. Does this mean that if in a line of unconformed troops when one BG breaks and flees, the pursuing BG automatically counts the adjacent enemy BG, which is partially in front of the unconformed pursuer, as contacted, therefore charged? COOL! One more reason to cling to page 87!!!!

??? I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at, can you post a diagram or pic of that please?

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:27 pm

Sure.
a line of troops gaurding a gap between a coast and an impassible feature hit by another line of troops that cannot conform so they start like this:
[

][

]

[

][

]

The smileys break and flee. The gloating evil ones must pursue, but are in front edge contact with surprised, though would only count as an overlap in melee. Surprised were fighting as in front edge contact with grumpy, but are contacted by pursuers, so are charged?

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:26 am

If the smilies had been a bit ahead of surprised, I believe so, but since they are all in line. Surprised and evil are already in contact. So where is the pursuit, where the new contact?

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:35 am

Because at the start of the phase "surprised" was not "gloating"s close combat opponent.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:04 am

So? That means you are now in an overlap position (p. 75).* There are various ways how you can be in contact with en enemy BG without having fought it so far. In none of those cases can you charge them later. Best you can do is to move so that there will be melee later on, but there is no way that leads to impact combat (p. 76 ff.). And it's not even one of those cases as you are already in a legal overlap situation. So why would you think it's different in this case?

*The only real question is, since you fought as if conformed, do you actually have to drop back a base and pursue or can you remain in the overlap position? That question of course only comes up if you don't conform using the longer way, as the shortest way is blocked.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:41 am

Right, which is why I laid out the scenario that neither side could conform. You can only drop back bases to avoid friends in a pursuit, but I agree that if you can't pursue you remain in place, fighting as an overlap next melee phase. My earlier statement was rash.