Landsknechts & Swiss BG size

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:51 pm

Nik's Wars of Religion lists have pike BGs in Bgs of 12-16.

Is it our intention to allow BGs of 16 pikes, or did we want only Early Tercios to be larger than 12 bases?

If we do allow BGs of 16 it raises the issue of whether they should be counted as 2 BGs for attritioon purposes like Early Tercios.

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I have added some other comments to the draft lists, which I will circulate later troday.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:09 pm

My view was that given that some of the Swiss and Landsknecht formations were even larger than the original tercios - 5000 is not an uncommon number - it would seem odd not to allow them.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:02 pm

Wars of Religion indeed, but in Trade and Treachery... no wonder I didn't see what you've been refering to. I'm a bit focussed on the later book right now.

Anyway ... the number argument could just as well be made for various ancient formations (pike or otherwise) but obviously didn't factor. Now I appreciate that FoG:R is a different system, still...
There is also the problem that it may work ok for some large battles, but if the size is set to 12 bases minimum some (smaller) battles might be hard to reproduce (for example some of the engagements during the German Peasant Wars 1524-1526). So if we go with a max. of 16 we will have to permit 8-16 at least in some lists (and might wish to do it for all for consistency).

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:07 am

In which case the rule that Early Tercios count as 2 BGs for attrition purposes probably need to be replaced by the concept of "Grand Battle Groups" - any BG larger than 12 bases in the original OOB - with GBGs counting as 2 BGs for attirtion purposes.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:38 pm

Ghaznavid wrote:Wars of Religion indeed, but in Trade and Treachery... no wonder I didn't see what you've been refering to. I'm a bit focussed on the later book right now.

The TYW lists for WoR are the more urgent at the moment and need doing ASAP.

Anyway ... the number argument could just as well be made for various ancient formations (pike or otherwise) but obviously didn't factor. Now I appreciate that FoG:R is a different system, still...
There is also the problem that it may work ok for some large battles, but if the size is set to 12 bases minimum some (smaller) battles might be hard to reproduce (for example some of the engagements during the German Peasant Wars 1524-1526). So if we go with a max. of 16 we will have to permit 8-16 at least in some lists (and might wish to do it for all for consistency).

BG sizes can be set as appropriate to the list in question and need not be the same as other lists if it can be justified.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:17 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
Ghaznavid wrote:Wars of Religion indeed, but in Trade and Treachery... no wonder I didn't see what you've been refering to. I'm a bit focussed on the later book right now.
The TYW lists for WoR are the more urgent at the moment and need doing ASAP.

I know, that's why I'm focused on the mentioned later book. You generated lists for the wrong book.