New to game and seeking advice

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:22 pm

I just picked up FOG and would like to solicit some advice about getting started. My biggest interest is in the Crusades, and I'd like to start off working on a Later Crusaders army. Eventually, I hope to also do up a Komnenos Byzantine and a Sejuk Turk army.

First, me: I'm a late 30's adult with a family, so don't have tons of free time to paint, but do want to paint my own army (I enjoy painting minis). I also don't have a cartload of money to invest. My painting experience is primarily with 25/28mm scale fantasy figures from Ral Partha, Reaper, and Grenadier. The closest experience I have to historical wargamming is playing a few games of Battletech back in college.

Looking through some old posts, it looks like 15mm is the more popular scale. How difficult will it be to paint compared to 25/28mm, given I have no experience with the smaller scale and a bit of an unsteady hand (I have difficulty doing details like eyes or buckles on 25/28mm scale)? Will 15mm miniatures paint up significantly faster than the larger minis?

Are the FOG army starter packs I've seen at Essex and Old Glory considered good deals for the money? How is the quality of the details on the minis from those manufacturers? Would you recommend any other manufacturers for either singles or army starter packs? I would prefer metal miniatures, but if the quality is very good, I'd be open to using plastic/resin minis.

Until I get an army painted and based (which I'm guessing will be at least sometime early next year), should I make up some cardboard counters (of the appropriate base size) to get playing right away? I have a fair amount of clipart, so could probably do a couple of armies in an hour or two.

Is there anything else I should consider while trying to get up and going?

Thank you for any advice you can offer.

benos · Post by **benos** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:01 pm

Ok firstly welcome to historical gaming and field of glory in particular

painting 15mm in some ways is more forgiving than 28mm, as you just cannot see the detail that cannot be painted, and the large groups of figures have a spectacle of thier own. Ink washes are reall really helpful i find, and they do speed things up. painting in grouped bases helps too, the painting in bulk happens automatically.
so don't try and get the datail you would on the 28mm stuff, and unless you are painting the very very detailed xyston or corvus belli i doubt anyone will notice without a magnifiying glass.
Essex started armies are supposed to be based on the started armies from the field of glory books, but check what they have listed, i got some odd combinations with the sassanid set i bought (had to get a selection more armoured horse archers as they seemed to assume they would be 2 to a base not 3...just as well i was expanding the army anyway) but they do list the make-up on the army sets on thier website. not tried the old glory packs but would recomend Tim Porters website for a good place to start with all the 15mm manufacturers
I personally use essex in most of my armies, may even be worth pming me as i may have some crusade era miniatures in the box waiting for ebay?

Ben

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:21 pm

I agree - 15mm stuff is lots easier to paint than the bigger scales. Here's a really simple painting guide, http://www.madaxeman.com/painting/paint ... bers_1.php although to be honest I've now swapped to spraying the figures black and then doing a "rushed" & messy paint job for the main detail, then hiding the mess with ink - which seems to work OK

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For 15mm it is metal - I don't know of any 15mm plastics. For crusader figures this page gives many of the manufacturers http://www.madaxeman.com/wiki2/tiki-ind ... r+Crusader .

Tim

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:32 pm

IMO painting 15mm is all about speed and getting figures on the table before the long haired CinC realises you have bought some more. Spray black, use about 5 colours then varnish, antique pine wood varnish is good and cheap.

But I would say one of the most important things is find a club or get to some conventions or even enter a competition. You will pick up the rules a lot faster.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:14 pm

When it comes to painting 15mm figures don't overdo the detail. Phil's advice is pretty good.

What matters more than most things is getting decent looking bases. There are some suggestions on different techiques in this forum.

Also as a new player you can always try playing just using blank bases to get an idea of how the game works. The ideal would be to find a local club or a group in a game store and then go with what they are playing. I can't imagine anything more frustrating that painting a 15mm army then finding a group where everyone uses 25s or vice versa.

sadista · Post by **sadista** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 pm

For 15mm Crusaders I strongly recommend Legio Heroica

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:33 pm

I agree with all points mentioned especially with sadista.

Legio Heroica IMHO are the best 15mm castings around and are on the larger size which makes painting a bit easier.

Here`s a free link

http://www.legio-heroica.com/index-en.html

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:13 am

I know this may sound like going overboard, but have you considered 10mm?

I fancy 10mm quite a bit. It is kind of a cross between the 'have reasonable detail' of the 15mm and the no detail but heaps fast to paint of the 6mm.

Old Glory and Magister Militum have a good range for Crusades too.

Just my 2c worth.

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:15 pm

Thank you for the advice so far.

For ordering minis from Essex or Legio Heroica, how is the shipping to the United States? Does it take as long as advertised? Do the minis usually arrive with a lot of bent up pieces (lances & standards, especially)? Are there any problems with delivery or packages getting lost (I've heard enough horror stories from E-Bay that I usually won't order outside the US)? Is there anything I would need to worry about for US Customs on receiving a package from England or Italy?

As for local games, I am not aware of anything near where I live (but then again, I live in a small farming town, so very little is near where I live except cows and corn). I'm hoping to get some of my friends and family interested in the game, but even if nobody is interested, I'd still be happy painted up armies and playing against myself. So, I don't have anyone locally with an army to match scale with.

mellis1644 · Post by **mellis1644** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:34 pm

hammy wrote:
What matters more than most things is getting decent looking bases. There are some suggestions on different techiques in this forum.

That's a bit of sagely advice there for any fig scale but especially 15mm. It amazes me how a poor base spoils a fig and equally how good basing brings up even fairly poor figs.

It still use the 2 foot rule. Don't pick up the figs and hold them 6" from your face. Hold them at arms length and see if they look good. The web and the super paint jobs people do can put off people starting painting and it's not that hard to get them pretty good at a 2 foot distance, which is what you play with them when they are on the table.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:46 pm

I also find use things like Little Big Men shield transfers (and flags) where appropriate are very nice additions for relatively little effort.

Nebelwerfer41 · Post by **Nebelwerfer41** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:32 pm

tvknight415 wrote:For ordering minis from Essex or Legio Heroica, how is the shipping to the United States? Does it take as long as advertised? Do the minis usually arrive with a lot of bent up pieces (lances & standards, especially)? Are there any problems with delivery or packages getting lost (I've heard enough horror stories from E-Bay that I usually won't order outside the US)? Is there anything I would need to worry about for US Customs on receiving a package from England or Italy?

Buy from Old Glory, they're local (western Michigan, near Grand Haven) and your shipping troubles are solved. Do a search for "old glory 15's" and you'll find 'em. The figs have a good amount of detail, but they have a little more flash than you may be used to if you're comfortable with the excellence of Reaper miniatures castings. Lances and standards if cast on the fig are going to get bent, but a lot of OG's longer lances are not molded on the fig and they send piano wire to put in their hands.

tvknight415 wrote:As for local games, I am not aware of anything near where I live (but then again, I live in a small farming town, so very little is near where I live except cows and corn). I'm hoping to get some of my friends and family interested in the game, but even if nobody is interested, I'd still be happy painted up armies and playing against myself. So, I don't have anyone locally with an army to match scale with.

You're from Wisconsin? I'm sure there are some gaming groups in the area. You may have to drive an hour to meet them, but I'm sure you can find some. How far from Chicago are you?

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:08 am

Nebelwerfer41 wrote:You're from Wisconsin? I'm sure there are some gaming groups in the area. You may have to drive an hour to meet them, but I'm sure you can find some. How far from Chicago are you?

Sadly, I'm about 5-1/2 hours from Chicago. Closest I get is about 2-1/2 hours away, and that's when visiting my in-laws.

Jimmy_Wishbone · Post by **Jimmy_Wishbone** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:38 am

I definitely jump onboard with Spartacus and Sadista on the Legio Heroica figures - they are fantastic. Very similar to painting Xyston in terms of size and detail. I ordered an entire FoG Crusader army that should provide me with a couple of options for the tabletop. Giuseppe was a pleaseure to deal with and was very prompt in responding both to the order and providing me with email updates. The order arrived about 6 days after shipping.

For ordering minis from Essex or Legio Heroica, how is the shipping to the United States? Does it take as long as advertised? Do the minis usually arrive with a lot of bent up pieces (lances & standards, especially)? Are there any problems with delivery or packages getting lost (I've heard enough horror stories from E-Bay that I usually won't order outside the US)? Is there anything I would need to worry about for US Customs on receiving a package from England or Italy?

I had no problems with the packing, everything was in standard ziplock bags, well taped with several layers of bubble wrap and a solid box. No damage noted on my end. Spears were in seperate bags with each unit so they traveled very well that way. I tend to replace all soft spears with wire ones (Xyston), so it wasn't that big of a deal for me. Customs was handled by the shipper declaration, and you would think that being just outside DC if anyone was going to have a probem it would have been me!

Giuseppe does charge the cost of shipping , etc to the order, and since this was a fairly hefty order it ran about 20 Euros.

I'm just finishing up the first unit, Turcopoles, once I get them complete and based I'll post a couple of pics. If I only hadn't been diverted to a few extra units of Imperial Romans and Classical Indians!

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:14 am

[quote="tvknight415"
For ordering minis from Essex or Legio Heroica, how is the shipping to the United States? Does it take as long as advertised? Do the minis usually arrive with a lot of bent up pieces (lances & standards, especially)? Are there any problems with delivery or packages getting lost (I've heard enough horror stories from E-Bay that I usually won't order outside the US)? Is there anything I would need to worry about for US Customs on receiving a package from England or Italy?
[/quote]

No problems receiving from England, Italy, Hong Kong. None at all.

Shipping is often faster than you think.
Yes some bending but rarely anything significant.

http://wargamesminis.com has essex in the US

Other club people report great service from Legio Heroica too

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:21 pm

I have never had any trouble ordering from Europe. Everywhere now seems to have web base store fronts which is very helpful. No longer do you have to hope you got the time zone right and deal with foreign types with funny accents.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:44 pm

ethan wrote:..... No longer do you have to hope you got the time zone right and deal with foreign types with funny accents.

Its not the accent, its the language barrier when speaking to people from the USA.

tvknight415 · Post by **tvknight415** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:51 pm

Oh, a couple more questions regarding getting started...

1. In looking at Old Glory 15's site, they indicate they do use lead in their miniatures. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes lead-free minis? I have a child under 2 in the house and would rather get a mini that's lead free.

2. For making multiple Saracen armies during the Crusading era, is the Arab/Saracen dress and equipment sufficiently similar to use the same minis to represent Seljuk Turks, Fatimid Egyptians, Bedouin Allies, and so on? Or is this going to be something that should be represented by multiple sets of miniatures?

I thank you again for the continued advice.

flameberge · Post by **flameberge** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:44 am

I don't know if there are any manufacturers that make lead free minis. I think you'd have to make sure you keep them out of reach from the children.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:42 pm

Many US manufacturers switched to pewter (lead free, I think) several years ago to conform to legal regulations on lead in toys. So any manufacturer that lists their figures as pewter should have minimal or no lead content.

Chris

New to game and seeking advice

New to game and seeking advice

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