Lethality of musket fire

[Lysimachos]

I was wondering which files and inherent strings should be modified to obtain a different ratio of casualties per each turn of musket fire (I'm referring to the percentage of lethality of the single volleys) and if this is a function which applies uniformly for all types of units or whether it is possible to differentiate it depending on whether they are steady, disrupted or fragmented.

Any help should be welcomed!!

[Athos1660]

I knew it back when I modded P&S. I don't remember now.
Can't you make some quick reversible tests on Squads.csv, using say BlueMusketeers ?

[Lysimachos]

As as I understand the mechanism of the Squads.cvs file, it shouldn't be here that the problem can be solved.

There must be some other file which determines the effects of musket fire ...

[Athos1660]

Yet it works for me : when I change "Musket" to Blue_Musketeers from 100 to 150, Casualties goes from 25-75 to 36-111.





However, now that I re-read your OP, I am not sure I understand what you wish.

[Cronos09]

As as I understand the mechanism of the Squads.cvs file, it shouldn't be here that the problem can be solved.

There must be some other file which determines the effects of musket fire ...

As for me I do not quite understand the problem with musket fire.
All scripts related to shooting and firing damage are written in files Shooting.BSF and Shooting_Logic.BSF. You already was changing the artillery damage in Shooting_Logic.BSF. Next script block in FUNCTION CalculateShootingDamage() is responsible for the other firing damage (incl. musket fire). Below in this function takes into account the following modifiers: full or half volley, movement, cover and morale. Thу last modifier uses FUNCTION GetMoraleDisorderModifier() which takes into account Steady, Disrupted or Fragmented unit state (see CombatTools.BSF).
If you would like to reduce forcedly the musket damage in each several turns, you should use Ammunition scripts like in FoG2: eg. full musket damage for the first 5 turns of shooting, 2/3 damage for the next 5 tuns and the rest turns - 1/2 musket damage or something like this.

[Lysimachos]

Yet it works for me : when I change "Musket" to Blue_Musketeers from 100 to 150, Casualties goes from 25-75 to 36-111.

However, now that I re-read your OP, I am not sure I understand what you wish.

You're right mate, but in this way you substantially make 100 men to use 150 muskets, which is quite unrealistic (though this could be a fallback solution if it isn't possible to do otherwise).

Moreover, my intent wasn't that of merely enhancing the fire power of some units but to decrease the range of probabilities of the outcome of the salvo (i.e., for example, to have casualties for superior units going from 70 to 90 instead from 36 to 111 and for average units from 40 to 60 instead from 25 to 75).

[Lysimachos]

As for me I do not quite understand the problem with musket fire.
All scripts related to shooting and firing damage are written in files Shooting.BSF and Shooting_Logic.BSF. You already was changing the artillery damage in Shooting_Logic.BSF. Next script block in FUNCTION CalculateShootingDamage() is responsible for the other firing damage (incl. musket fire). Below in this function takes into account the following modifiers: full or half volley, movement, cover and morale. Thу last modifier uses FUNCTION GetMoraleDisorderModifier() which takes into account Steady, Disrupted or Fragmented unit state (see CombatTools.BSF).
If you would like to reduce forcedly the musket damage in each several turns, you should use Ammunition scripts like in FoG2: eg. full musket damage for the first 5 turns of shooting, 2/3 damage for the next 5 tuns and the rest turns - 1/2 musket damage or something like this.

Thanks Cronos09, I will try to have a look at it during the holidays.

Your hints are precious!

[Athos1660]

Yet it works for me : when I change "Musket" to Blue_Musketeers from 100 to 150, Casualties goes from 25-75 to 36-111.
(...)

You're right mate, but in this way you substantially make 100 men to use 150 muskets, which is quite unrealistic (though this could be a fallback solution if it isn't possible to do otherwise).

It could also be interpreted as :
(1) the same number of Blue_Musketeers of the 18th century are able to cause 36/25, that is about 45% more casulaties than the Blue_Musketeers of the 17th, thanks to their new equipment, their better training, their new tactics, which might be realistic (?). Of course, 150 is en example. It could be less effective with 110, 120 or, on the contrary, even 80...

or

(2) A 80 Blue_Musketeers is say 80% as effective as a 100 Blue_Musketeers.

Moreover, my intent wasn't that of merely enhancing the fire power of some units but to decrease the range of probabilities of the outcome of the salvo (i.e., for example, to have casualties for superior units going from 70 to 90 instead from 36 to 111 and for average units from 40 to 60 instead from 25 to 75).

Sorry, I definitely can't help you for that.

[Lysimachos]

It could also be interpreted as :
(1) the same number of Blue_Musketeers of the 18th century are able to cause 36/25, that is about 45% more casulaties than the Blue_Musketeers of the 17th, thanks to their new equipment, their better training, their new tactics, which might be realistic (?). Of course, 150 is en example. It could be less effective with 110, 120 or, on the contrary, even 80...

or

(2) A 80 Blue_Musketeers is say 80% as effective as a 100 Blue_Musketeers.

The second interpretation, in fact, holds ...

[Athos1660]

I don't understand what you mean.

[Cronos09]

Moreover, my intent wasn't that of merely enhancing the fire power of some units but to decrease the range of probabilities of the outcome of the salvo (i.e., for example, to have casualties for superior units going from 70 to 90 instead from 36 to 111 and for average units from 40 to 60 instead from 25 to 75).

Yes, there is the shooting adjustment for an unit quality - FUNCTION GetShootingWeaponModifier in CombatTools.BSF:

Code: Select all

			// Note that the adjustments below don't work identically to POAs as they occur after the other POAs have been taken into account

			// Adjust for quality
			POA = GetQuality(me) - 100; // Standard quality is 100. Only adjust POA for quality above or below 100.
			POA /= 2;  // 200 quality (+100 above average) is worth +50 POA
			total_modifier = AdjustedShootingPercent(total_modifier, POA);

You can add the same script above where 'Musket' is scripted and play with various value.

[Lysimachos]

Moreover, my intent wasn't that of merely enhancing the fire power of some units but to decrease the range of probabilities of the outcome of the salvo (i.e., for example, to have casualties for superior units going from 70 to 90 instead from 36 to 111 and for average units from 40 to 60 instead from 25 to 75).

Yes, there is the shooting adjustment for an unit quality - FUNCTION GetShootingWeaponModifier in CombatTools.BSF:

Code: Select all

			// Note that the adjustments below don't work identically to POAs as they occur after the other POAs have been taken into account

			// Adjust for quality
			POA = GetQuality(me) - 100; // Standard quality is 100. Only adjust POA for quality above or below 100.
			POA /= 2;  // 200 quality (+100 above average) is worth +50 POA
			total_modifier = AdjustedShootingPercent(total_modifier, POA);

You can add the same script above where 'Musket' is scripted and play with various value.

That's really interesting.
I will try to figure it out!

[Lysimachos]

I don't understand what you mean.

I intended to mean that your interpretation:
(2) A 80 Blue_Musketeers is say 80% as effective as a 100 Blue_Musketeers.
is solid!

[Athos1660]

Ah, I got it.

[Lysimachos]

Hi Andrei,
I’ve looked at the function but didn’t realize how it really works.

When the script says:
“POA = GetQuality(me) - 100; // Standard quality is 100. Only adjust POA for quality above or below 100.”
does it refer to a unit that is under average quality (- 100) or the sign “-“ is used only to separate “GetQuality(me)” from “100”?
And when it says:
“POA /= 2; // 200 quality (+100 above average) is worth +50 POA”
does it mean that you’re giving that unit 2 extra POAs or what else?

In other words, If I would like to have that:
- raw units fire 30% less effectively than average units,
- below average units fire 15% less effectively than average units,
- above average units fire 15% more effectively than average units,
- superior units fire 30% more effectively than average units,
how should I write the script?

[Cronos09]

In other words, If I would like to have that:
- raw units fire 30% less effectively than average units,
- below average units fire 15% less effectively than average units,
- above average units fire 15% more effectively than average units,
- superior units fire 30% more effectively than average units,
how should I write the script?

I think it would be wrong changes. The shooting damage, depending on the unit's quality, is good at present. There is no need change this balance, IMHO.

[Lysimachos]

The big problem is that, under musket fire, superior units tend to get disrupted or fragmented quite in the same manner as raw or below average units, which is unhistorical.

While decreasing the fire power of lesser units it's possible to make superior and above average units less prone to this kind of fragility

[gribol]

The big problem is that, under musket fire, superior units tend to get disrupted or fragmented quite in the same manner as raw or below average units, which is unhistorical.

While decreasing the fire power of lesser units it's possible to make superior and above average units less prone to this kind of fragility

I don't know exactly how it works, you guys are the modders, but aren't there other probabilities for disorganizing units with different morale in close combat?
Doesn't this mechanism apply to firefights? Maybe introducing it would solve the problem?

[Athos1660]

The big problem is that, under musket fire, superior units tend to get disrupted or fragmented quite in the same manner as raw or below average units, which is unhistorical.

As the manual says : "The cohesion test is based on Rand(1,6) + Rand(1,6), with some “re-rolls” depending on troop quality. There are shades of quality, and the effect of these variations is fully represented mathematically by the game engine. However, as a general guide, Untrained troops re-roll 6s, Superior troops re-roll 1s, Elite troops re-roll 1s and 2s. A score of 6 (after modifiers have been applied) is required to pass the test."

While decreasing the fire power of lesser units it's possible to make superior and above average units less prone to this kind of fragility

In the Vanilla game, a better troop quality already significantly makes more casualties :
1) Raw units :


2) Vet unts:


Anyway, it is also a matter of "how much ". That's personal taste and balance...