Smallest army in BGs

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:02 am

What's the smallest army possible in terms of BG at (exactly) 800AP?

I can get Latin Greeks down to 7BG:

IC, FC, 2xTC - 200AP
2x6 Kn, HArm, S, UD, L, Sw - 276AP
2x4 Kn, HArm, S, UD, L, Sw - 184AP
1x4 Kn, HArm, S, D, L, Sw - 104AP
2x6 LF, UnPro, P, UD, Bw - 36AP

For 6BG? Tried Medieval French, the AP numbers don't add up. Then I thought of Ordonnance:

FC, FC, 2xTC - 170AP
3x6 Kn, HArm, S, D, L, Sw - 468AP
1x6 MF, Pro, A, D, LBw, Sw - 54AP
1x6 MF, UnPro, P, UD, LBw - 24AP
1x4 Kn, HArm, A, D, L, Sw - 84AP

Now is 5BG even possible? I think I know of one

, but you have to "fiddle" it a little...

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:02 am

Milanese Condotta

IC, TC, TC, TC
4 Superior Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword

793 points so pretty close IMO.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:11 am

Tibetan, would be perfect if not for the compulsory fortified camp.

FC, FC, TC, TC
5x6 cataphracts
Camp
794

without camp would have been
IC, FC, TC, TC
5x6 Cats
800
Dismount and wait.

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:24 am

hammy wrote:Milanese Condotta

IC, TC, TC, TC
4 Superior Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword
6 Average Heavily Armoured Drilled Knights Lance Sword

793 points so pretty close IMO.

The army for the man who well and truly has their wargaming budget under the thumb of their spouse! Hell, I could afford this army even in 25mm! Would only take about 5 minutes to paint up - assuming you just ink them black and leave the lead bare

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:56 am

ravenflight wrote:
hammy wrote:Milanese Condotta
The army for the man who well and truly has their wargaming budget under the thumb of their spouse! Hell, I could afford this army even in 25mm! Would only take about 5 minutes to paint up - assuming you just ink them black and leave the lead bare

It is far bigger in FoG than it was in DBM. I mean you have to have 4 commander bases (say one of 3 and three of 2 figures) plus 28 bases of knights so a total of 93 mounted figures. The equivalent 400 point DBM army came to 4 generals, 2 Milanese famaglieri and 20 normal condottieri so only 78 figures

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:26 am

hammy wrote:Milanese Condotta
...
793 points so pretty close IMO.

The one I'm thinking of has exactly 800AP...

It's so neatly condense you could arguably save even more figures by just embedding the generals in the BGs
and take one general base in the unlikely event of needing to move one away...

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:33 am

Thinking about it, at 6BG and below, you can flank march your entire army...

...except the remaining generals looking for somewhere to hide... or running round the table at high speed.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:50 pm

peterrjohnston wrote:
hammy wrote:Milanese Condotta
...
793 points so pretty close IMO.
The one I'm thinking of has exactly 800AP...

It's so neatly condense you could arguably save even more figures by just embedding the generals in the BGs
and take one general base in the unlikely event of needing to move one away...

I think there need to be rules about 'wasting' points on commanders really. I mean an IC, 2 FCs and a TC cost you 215 points and if you get sneaky and have an ally you can have an IC and 3 FCs so end up spending 220 just on commanders.

I had to tweak my list to get it under 800 AP for the 5 BGs, that is why I had to use the superior chaps

I would be interested to see your 4 BG army

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:03 pm

800pts
5BG
66 mtd figs 24 foot
Generals
Camp
Though since I'm at work it may have to have some LF?? don't know

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:18 pm

philqw78 wrote:
800pts
5BG
66 mtd figs 24 foot
Generals
Camp
Though since I'm at work it may have to have some LF?? don't know

Nah, you have to have 8 LH and if you take any foot you have to have foot archers, that is assuming this is a Komnenan list

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:26 pm

Yes, thought so. Any way would have been easier to turn the Tibetan into Norman, 'cos I'm pretty sure they don't have to take any crap.

5x6 Armd Knights 600pts
IC
FC
2xTC 200pts
800pts - 90 mounted figs plus generals

Books would help tho

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:29 pm

hammy wrote: I think there need to be rules about 'wasting' points on commanders really. I mean an IC, 2 FCs and a TC cost you 215 points and if you get sneaky and have an ally you can have an IC and 3 FCs so end up spending 220 just on commanders.

I had to tweak my list to get it under 800 AP for the 5 BGs, that is why I had to use the superior chaps

I would be interested to see your 4 BG army

It was 5BG, Navarrese at 800AP:

2xFC, TC, Allied TC - 160AP
4x6 Kn, HArm, S, U, L, Sw - 552AP
1x4 HF, HArm, S, D, HW - 64AP
FCamp - 24AP

But now you mention the generals, for 796AP:

IC, 2xFC, Allied FC - 220AP
4x6 Kn, HArm, S, U, L, Sw - 552AP
FCamp - 24AP

As you only have 4BG, like I said, you could make the generals part of the BGs, so 72 figures in total, and one small biscuit tin to carry it all in

However, it's possible you might want the dismounts. It isn't 800AP though.

Does a 4BG army at 800AP exist?

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:33 pm

philqw78 wrote:Yes, thought so. Any way would have been easier to turn the Tibetan into Norman, 'cos I'm pretty sure they don't have to take any crap.

5x6 Armd Knights 600pts
IC
FC
2xTC 200pts
800pts - 90 mounted figs plus generals

Books would help tho

I can't check for you as I'm waiting on Oaths and Curses to arrive. It would be another 5BG though. Hmmm, Navarrese or Norman

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:36 pm

peterrjohnston wrote:I can't check for you as I'm waiting on Oaths and Curses to arrive. It would be another 5BG though. Hmmm, Navarrese or Norman

Its in wolves from the sea Peter

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:45 pm

philqw78 wrote:
peterrjohnston wrote:I can't check for you as I'm waiting on Oaths and Curses to arrive. It would be another 5BG though. Hmmm, Navarrese or Norman
Its in wolves from the sea Peter

Goes and checks. Yes, no crap at the back. So you're right, Normans is another 5BG

. Lot of figures though!

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:13 pm

A 4BG at 800AP

Later Polish

IC, 2xFC, TC - 200AP
4x6 Kn, HArm, S, U, L, Sw - 552AP
FCamp - 24AP
8 Wagon fortress FF - 24AP

Now, if you put the fortified camp behind the wagon fortress, what does it count as?

You can also do a 5BG army as per Phil's Normans with 1/2 Kn and 1/2 Cv BGs costing 120AP. A frontage of 15...

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:15 pm

you mean IC, FC, 2 TC

peterrjohnston · Post by **peterrjohnston** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:32 pm

philqw78 wrote:you mean IC, FC, 2 TC

Yes, my mistake. Although as Hammy says, perhaps maxing out on generals (and using FF) is perhaps unreasonable.
Now, do I have the cajones to play such an army

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:40 pm

Jer took a 40EE DBM army to the ITC, this looks similarly ballsy. Time to find out if you have cajones to match Jer's...

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:14 pm

timmy1 wrote:Jer took a 40EE DBM army to the ITC, this looks similarly ballsy. Time to find out if you have cajones to match Jer's...

Amatuer. I took 43 actual elements to Britcon a few years ago, 42.5EE. Didn't do very well though