Hit in flank and rear

[richafricanus]

Playing a game the other evening we had a tricky situation that I'm not sure we resolved correctly. I'm not used to doing this so hopefully my picture is clear.

MMM
MMM

KKK
KKK C
C
C
C
K are 6 Knights facing down the page. C are 4 Cav charging them in the flank hitting front Knight base. M are 6 Dailami charging them in the rear hitting the Knight base behind the one hit by cav. (These Knights were in serious poo ) How do the knights turn to fight?

[hammy]

Playing a game the other evening we had a tricky situation that I'm not sure we resolved correctly. I'm not used to doing this so hopefully my picture is clear.

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 MMM
 MMM

KKK  
KKK  C
     C
     C
     C

K are 6 Knights facing down the page. C are 4 Cav charging them in the flank hitting front Knight base. M are 6 Dailami charging them in the rear hitting the Knight base behind the one hit by cav. (These Knights were in serious poo ) How do the knights turn to fight?

Assuming my interpretation of the diagram is correct I think you have 3 bases of knights that are being hit, labeled 1,2 & 3 below.

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 MMM
 MMM
K12  
KK3C
   C
   C
   C

will definitley turn to face the Dailami, 3 will definitely turn to face the cavalry and 2 will I am pretty sure be hit by both the cavalry and the dailami. There is as far as I can see nothing in the rules about bases hit simultaneously in the flank and rear. I would probably turn base 2 to face whichever enemy BG rolled against it in the impact.

[Polkovnik]

Can he then decide which way to turn the rest of the knights when he conforms ? And presumably only feed in more bases in the direction he has turned ?

[richafricanus]

Assuming my interpretation of the diagram is correct I think you have 3 bases of knights that are being hit, labeled 1,2 & 3 below.

Code: Select all

 MMM
 MMM
K12  
KK3C
   C
   C
   C

will definitley turn to face the Dailami, 3 will definitely turn to face the cavalry and 2 will I am pretty sure be hit by both the cavalry and the dailami. There is as far as I can see nothing in the rules about bases hit simultaneously in the flank and rear. I would probably turn base 2 to face whichever enemy BG rolled against it in the impact.

After it has turned to face C, would the right flank of 3 be lined up with the front of the knight unit thereby pushing 1&2 back towards M? If so that would have pushed 1&2 into rough terrain.

[hammy]

I can't see how C would be able to charge the flank of K without contacting both 2 and 3 in the flank. If there was no BG M then both 2 and 3 would turn to face C as a 'column' and that would push the other knigh bases back although even if this put those bases in terrain it would not really have any effect on the combat.

The knights would at the start of the movement phase have the option to reform to face either M or C and also expand a base to fight against the overlap base from BG C.

[philqw78]

If there was no BG M then both 2 and 3 would turn to face C as a 'column'

Would not be right as they are 60mm deep so must be 60mm wide after turn.

But since you are only having to turn 3 it will as the rules stand push 1 and 2 back into the terrain behind them. Unless the bit in the rules about not moving enemy to conform is used, thenyou would fight as if conformed but don't conform. Otherwise Ouch.

[hammy]

If there was no BG M then both 2 and 3 would turn to face C as a 'column'

Would not be right as they are 60mm deep so must be 60mm wide after turn.

But since you are only having to turn 3 it will as the rules stand push 1 and 2 back into the terrain behind them. Unless the bit in the rules about not moving enemy to conform is used, thenyou would fight as if conformed but don't conform. Otherwise Ouch.

If only one base of C has hit the flank of the knights then it will contact two bases on the side. Both these bases would turn (if it was not for the fact that the knights had also been hit in the rear at the same time). When several bases turn in response to being hit in the flank by a single base they end up one behind the other or are you saying that if a column of legionaries hits a phalanx in the flank the phalanx ends up 3 bases wide?

[philqw78]

If only one base of C has hit the flank of the knights then it will contact two bases on the side. Both these bases would turn (if it was not for the fact that the knights had also been hit in the rear at the same time). When several bases turn in response to being hit in the flank by a single base they end up one behind the other or are you saying that if a column of legionaries hits a phalanx in the flank the phalanx ends up 3 bases wide?

No they would end up 2 bases wide, at least 45mm, as 45mm depth is contacted.

[hammy]

If only one base of C has hit the flank of the knights then it will contact two bases on the side. Both these bases would turn (if it was not for the fact that the knights had also been hit in the rear at the same time). When several bases turn in response to being hit in the flank by a single base they end up one behind the other or are you saying that if a column of legionaries hits a phalanx in the flank the phalanx ends up 3 bases wide?

No they would end up 2 bases wide, at least 45mm, as 45mm depth is contacted.

Checks the words... yup you would seem to be right. "bases contacted on a side or rear edge or a rear corner..... are immediately turned.... using the normal rules for turning....."

So infact the charging player will detrmine which way the knights end up facing. If the dailami charge first then the rear rank turns 180 and element 2 ends up fighting the dailami if cavalry charge first then base 2 turns 90 ending next to base 3 which will also be facing the cavalry and so you end up with the remaining 4 bases being pulled away from the terrain rather than towards it.

[sagji]

The knights would at the start of the movement phase have the option to reform to face either M or C and also expand a base to fight against the overlap base from BG C.

No - a BG fighting in multiple directions can't reform. (p70 RHS 2nd bullet point)

[philqw78]

The knights would at the start of the movement phase have the option to reform to face either M or C and also expand a base to fight against the overlap base from BG C.

No - a BG fighting in multiple directions can't reform. (p70 RHS 2nd bullet point)

They can though turn to face and expand/move into overlap a file which gives the same effect

[sagji]

The knights would at the start of the movement phase have the option to reform to face either M or C and also expand a base to fight against the overlap base from BG C.

No - a BG fighting in multiple directions can't reform. (p70 RHS 2nd bullet point)

They can though turn to face and expand/move into overlap a file which gives the same effect

Contacted bases turn.
Other bases can turn only by reforming, conforming, or feeding more bases in.
A BG fighting in multiple directions can't reform or conform.

The only way the knights can get an overlap against M is to first expand against C with the knight that is in contact with M, and then in their own turn expand against M - or by routing C or forcing it to break off and then reforming or conforming to M.