BUG REPORT. Vassals.

[Tharoz]

I'm playing a multiplayer game, which as far as I can tell does not work with the in game bug report tool.

I'm playing Venice, and I have made vassals of Verona, Tuscany and Genoa among others. My problem is that other nations do not respect the vassal system.

The Papal States and the Fatimids have both gone to war with Tuscany in various circumstances, and yet I have never been pulled in, or even had an option to join the war. They have occupied Tuscany territory and succeeded in claiming it off Tuscany and ending the war, without me, as Tuscany's liege having any input.

Genoa (when it was independent) declared war on me, and I vassalised it to end the war. Genoan territory that Verona had occupied remains Genoan land occupied by Verona, even though both were now my vassals, and they appeared to still be at war, though there was nothing in the diplomacy relations to support this.

The attached 'Venice Situation 1' shows all three as my vassals.
'Verona occupying Genoa' shows, as it says, Verona occupying Genoa, despite them both being my vassals.

Once I vassalised Genoa, Verona has not attacked them since, so they may be practically at peace, but this occupying state should have been resolved.

There is also the issue with the Papal States, who I have a Co-operation treaty with, but they are occupying land owned by Tuscany, my vassal.

'Papal State occupying Tuscany' shows both that Tuscany is my vassal, and that I am not at war with the Papal States. While the tooltip shows that Papal States are occupying Tuscany.

Unfortunately, playing with vassals seems to be bordering on unplayable with them in this state.

[Pocus]

We have never seen this in SP (and to be honest I have not yet received any reports about it in MP either). I suppose it could be a desync bug. Have you spoken with the attackers and asked them whether they indeed see them as vassals? That would be the first step. In any case, without a reproducible case in SP, it is unfortunately not fixable. I will see whether it is still possible to reproduce the issue in an indirect way. Do you have the name of the game?

[Tharoz]

The MP game is called "This way instead chaps".

I've asked the other players about how my vassals display for them, they tell me that all four of my vassals, Verona, Genoa, Tuscany and Corsica do display as my vassals to them.

The Verona Genoa situation seems to have resolved currently, as Verona has occupied the land long enough that it's full ownership has defaulted to Verona, though I don't know that this has actually resolved any underlying issue.

[Tharoz]

As another example of something not working quite right, my vassal Corsica owned the Province of Tunis. The Banu Hilal invaded and conquered Mahdia in the south east corner, so it was owned by Corsica, occupied by Banu Hilal. I then invaded and took it back. But instead of it reverting to my vassal Corsica, it became owned by Corsica, occupied by Venice. I thought that was a little odd, but thought it would resolve when the war ended. I made peace with Banu Hilal, but Mahdia is still owned by Corsica, occupied by Venice, and no one is at war.

[Tharoz]

A further issue with vassals I am having in the same game. Is this intentional? I can't see why it should be.

In the screenshot you can see that under claims, Tuscany is listed as allied, when it is in fact a vassal, as you can see from the tooltip on Volterra (bottom right corner of the screenshot), listing Tuscany as a vassal of Venice. More significantly, these claims Tuscany is holding seem to give me the same authority penalty as a foreign nation holding a claim to my territory, which is mad.

[Surt]

As another example of something not working quite right, my vassal Corsica owned the Province of Tunis. The Banu Hilal invaded and conquered Mahdia in the south east corner, so it was owned by Corsica, occupied by Banu Hilal. I then invaded and took it back. But instead of it reverting to my vassal Corsica, it became owned by Corsica, occupied by Venice. I thought that was a little odd, but thought it would resolve when the war ended. I made peace with Banu Hilal, but Mahdia is still owned by Corsica, occupied by Venice, and no one is at war.

Can you trade it to them?

[Surt]

A further issue with vassals I am having in the same game. Is this intentional? I can't see why it should be.

In the screenshot you can see that under claims, Tuscany is listed as allied, when it is in fact a vassal, as you can see from the tooltip on Volterra (bottom right corner of the screenshot), listing Tuscany as a vassal of Venice. More significantly, these claims Tuscany is holding seem to give me the same authority penalty as a foreign nation holding a claim to my territory, which is mad.

The text is likely misleading, if your relation is high enough it doesn't matter that they have claims, 25 or 50 idk.

[Tharoz]

Can you trade it to them?

Yes, and I did, but the point is it should not be happening, This post is me reporting what appear to be bugs with vassals in a MP game, as the in game bug report tool does not appear to work in MP.

The text is likely misleading, if your relation is high enough it doesn't matter that they have claims, 25 or 50 idk.

Again, something is not working correctly, or is displaying incorrectly, so I am reporting it as a bug, what exactly the problem and solution is, I'll leave to the devs.

[Pocus]

Vassals are allies in practice, with a few added specifics, so I would not worry about them being listed as allies in the nation panel.
I have inspected half a dozen saves, each containing several nations with vassals, and I saw no issues. This appears suspiciously tied to the fact that you are in an MP game, with timing discrepancies between players. I am still trying to identify the possible cause of these discrepancies, but it continues to elude me. I have also requested additional profiling tools to help locate the source of the problem.