Swifter than Dragons

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:45 pm

Is it possible to draw up an 800ap list that would be legal for the majority of Dragons Chinese armies?

Or put another way, what's the list that would be legal for the most different armies?

I guess you could extend it to all the books, in which case a bq/as cab and LH outfit would be my bet for maximum list morphability?

benos · Post by **benos** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:59 am

would that be morphing figures or just the same troop type?

with the morphing figures light horse armies make a fairly morphable appearence in most of the books (skythians a bit colourful and later mongols a bit more regular) with some variation in the nobles (shooty cav/lancer cav/cats)

but if it's the troop type i suspect medium foot with light spear and not much armour or light foot with bow will be the most common (every book has some peasant types with bow, though using arab light foot as aztecs might be a little far?)

Ben

Intothevalley · Post by **Intothevalley** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:37 am

It's complicated by the pesky (though entirely justified) changes in cavalry armament, from crossbow to bow, and the fact that there is a change of infantry characterisation in the Northern Wei - early Song. Also numbers of infantry available at different times.

However, I think if you start with 16 bases of MF/Ave/Drilled/Prot/HW and 16 bases of MF/Ave/Drilled/Prot/Crossbow, with 3 TCs and an IC C-in-C that gets you to 425 points. Then you just need to tack on more of the same (depending on time period) and/or different flavours of bw/xb cavalry (early vs late), occasional compulsory poor troops (such as the greviously nerfed Southern Dynasties list - come back Bd(F), all is forgiven!) and I think you can then do Warring States to Ming, with a gap in the middle for the Tang.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:18 am

You could say the same thing about a few of the books :
Storm of Arrows
Oath of Fealty
Wolves from the Sea
In all of these books a lot of the armies are very similar.

You could go the opposite way and say - which book gives the most variety of different armies ? Immortal Fire, maybe ?

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:52 am

Intothevalley wrote:It's complicated by the pesky (though entirely justified) changes in cavalry armament, from crossbow to bow, and the fact that there is a change of infantry characterisation in the Northern Wei - early Song. Also numbers of infantry available at different times.

However, I think if you start with 16 bases of MF/Ave/Drilled/Prot/HW and 16 bases of MF/Ave/Drilled/Prot/Crossbow, with 3 TCs and an IC C-in-C that gets you to 425 points. Then you just need to tack on more of the same (depending on time period) and/or different flavours of bw/xb cavalry (early vs late), occasional compulsory poor troops (such as the greviously nerfed Southern Dynasties list - come back Bd(F), all is forgiven!) and I think you can then do Warring States to Ming, with a gap in the middle for the Tang.

I guess this was kinda what I was chewing over in an idle moment.

If you took your 425 point base, and added some LFand a few more MF, you'd have an identikit foundation list. Just add a couple fo hundred points of

8 Sup/Av Arm Dr Cv Bw/Sw (or) 8 Sup/Av Arm Dr Cv Ln/Sw (or) Sup/Av Arm Dr Cv Xb/Sw
4/8 Av Unprot LH Bw/Sw

and I think that would get you to a fair few lists in SoD.

Wolves would be Generals, 48 undrilled av prot def sp, 2 x 6 LF Bw, ...?
Oafs would be Generals, 24 def Sp + 16 Arm Sup Undr Ln/Sw + some MF poor unprot Bw ..?

Would save me some time in the wiki setup!

Intothevalley · Post by **Intothevalley** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:29 pm

madaxeman wrote:
Wolves would be Generals, 48 undrilled av prot def sp, 2 x 6 LF Bw, ...?

That's a very unfair statement about the wonderful variety in the Wolves from the Sea book. There are at least two variants:

Gobfulls of HF/Ave/Undr/Prot/OSp with a side order of Cv/Sup/Undr/Arm/LSp/Sw
Gobfulls of HF/Ave/Undr/Prot/DSp with a side order of Cv/Sup/Undr/Arm/Lance/Sw

And then there's Early Slavic - I find myself morbidly fascinated by this list. Has anyone taken it to a tournament yet? If so I think that firstly they should be congratulated for having such big cojones, and secondly some sort of collection should be organised for them....

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:59 pm

Intothevalley wrote: And then there's Early Slavic - I find myself morbidly fascinated by this list. Has anyone taken it to a tournament yet? If so I think that firstly they should be congratulated for having such big cojones, and secondly some sort of collection should be organised for them....

Your on, after I have finished with the Urartians

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:49 pm

The Urartians are so bad that even Phil is thinking he won't take them to the next competition.

I don't know why he just doesn't a complete dog of an army, come up with a complete rubbish plan and then tell his opponent what he is going to do. Erm, hang on, that happened at Britcon - please disregard.

babyshark · Post by **babyshark** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:09 pm

madaxeman wrote:I guess you could extend it to all the books, in which case a bq/as cab and LH outfit would be my bet for maximum list morphability?

Bold added by me. I like to think of myself as fairly clever, but--try as I might--I cannot puzzle out what is meant by this. What is a "bq/as cab"?

Marc

johno · Post by **johno** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:32 pm

A mistype for Bw/a/s cav?

Q is next to W and V is next to B on the standard QWERTY keyboard

johno

Intothevalley · Post by **Intothevalley** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:10 pm

philqw78 wrote:
Intothevalley wrote: And then there's Early Slavic - I find myself morbidly fascinated by this list. Has anyone taken it to a tournament yet? If so I think that firstly they should be congratulated for having such big cojones, and secondly some sort of collection should be organised for them....
Your on, after I have finished with the Urartians

Pardon my ignorance, but what's so bad abut the Urartians? Seems like they have more options than the poor old early Slavs.

Anyhow, would be great to see your reports of your Slav dudes once you've painted all 154 bases of MF light spear - it would either be like watching the greatest train wreck in history, or being witness to the greatest display of tactical brilliance ever yet seen!

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:45 pm

Intothevalley wrote:....Anyhow, would be great to see your reports of your Slav dudes once you've painted all 154 bases of MF light spear - it would either be like watching the greatest train wreck in history, or being witness to the greatest display of tactical brilliance ever yet seen!

Can't getall the foot in an 800pts list. Can only get 23 BG and some LF

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:33 pm

Phil, if you are taking Early Slav to Britcon, that is gutsy. Should you win Britcon with it, if ever we meet I will buy you a second beer to go with the one that I owe you in apology for doubting your sanity for this year's winning choice.

LambertSimnel · Post by **LambertSimnel** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:35 am

This 800AP list:

IC
2 * TC
5 * 6 Superior Armoured Undrilled Lance Sword Cavalry
2* 8 Poor Protected Undrilled Def. Spear HF
2 *6 Poor Unprotected Undrilled Bow LF (or MF)
1 *4 Average Unprotected Undrilled Bow Sword LH (or cav)

can be either Northern Dynasties Chinese or Lombard.

flamingpig0 · Post by **flamingpig0** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:08 pm

dave_r wrote:The Urartians are so bad that even Phil is thinking he won't take them to the next competition.

Say it ain't so!

I hav a a Urartian Army that is yet to take the field in FoG; it had very definite Turkey like qualities in DBM. I had hoped it would reprieve itself in the new era

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:05 pm

Phil did take the Uratians - he was 2nd going into the final round - then he met Pete Dalby and Alex Macs (which I would not expect in a Biblical theme but what do I know...) with predictable results. Phil had already beaten Classical Greek and Skythian (might have been a winning draw in the last one - not sure).

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:18 am

The Urtartians are at least OK, though they suffer from a shortage of lances.

and They "f*******g hate Pikeys"

I'll probably take them to Warfare. Its a true STE period there. Unlike Roll Call, where there were more Alex Mac armies than Bibilical armies added together.

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:02 pm

Phil

Seems like you had a problem with the length of your weapon... or more to the point your opponents all had longer weapons than you...

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:24 pm

philqw78 wrote:The Urtartians are at least OK, though they suffer from a shortage of lances.

and They "f*******g hate Pikeys"

I'll probably take them to Warfare. Its a true STE period there. Unlike Roll Call, where there were more Alex Mac armies than Bibilical armies added together.

I would think that being 1/2 light spear and 1/2 bow would be a benefit in staying out of the way of Pikeys. Out of curiosity, has your Urartian list been posted to Tim Porter's site or elsewhere? I would expect that armoured hoplites from an early Hoplite list would be far more threatening than Pikes.

Chris

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:16 pm

batesmotel wrote: I would think that being 1/2 light spear and 1/2 bow would be a benefit in staying out of the way of Pikeys. Out of curiosity, has your Urartian list been posted to Tim Porter's site or elsewhere? I would expect that armoured hoplites from an early Hoplite list would be far more threatening than Pikes.

Chris

They are both ++ against the Urartian foot. But the pike are also + at impact.
That would be it on Tims site.

Swifter than Dragons

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