Anti-tank gun question.

[stormbringer3]

I know the best terrain for infantry, armor and mobile anti-tank units. I'm not sure of the best terrain in which to place towed anti-tank units.
Thanks for any opinions.

[PeteMitchell]

behind a river bridge and then backed up by artillery... not sure about the best terrain...

[Locarnus]

Afair close terrain has an initiative cap for every? class except infantry.
Thus AT class should be used in open terrain (clear, countryside and so on), if you expect to or profit from having the initiative advantage.

[stormbringer3]

Thanks for the replies. I've never used a towed AT gun before and I'm thinking of trying out an 8.8 cm Pak 43. Any thoughts about this weapon?

[PeteMitchell]

A great weapon as long as you shoot first... a Tiger without a hull...

[rubyjuno]

The only AT gun I ever use is the "88", the 8.8 cm Flak. Initially, I use it only as an AA gun, but once it has some experience it is also an excellent AT gun, and excels in both roles. Like all AA/AT, it needs to be looked after. I don't bother with other towed AT as I've found them not worth the core slot they take up.

[PeteMitchell]

I agree

[stormbringer3]

Thanks for the opinions. I'll pass on using a towed AT gun.

[Locarnus]

Thanks for the opinions. I'll pass on using a towed AT gun.

Towed AT guns can be great, but only if you play with a mod that gives them the camo trait (making them invisible if no enemy unit is directly adjacent to them).

[stormbringer3]

Thanks, however, I've never learned how to do a mod.

[PeteMitchell]

In Battlefield Europe it is a bit different though...

[Locarnus]

Thanks, however, I've never learned how to do a mod.

Then you have the biggest part of PzC 1 still to discover!


This detailed preparation guide works for nearly every PzC 1 mod:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 7&t=106604

15 minutes of focused work following detailed instructions, and then a whole new world becomes available.
Since you have to do most of it only once!

[PeteMitchell]

Suggest you play Battlefield Europe in this case

[bondjamesbond]

(F.A.Q.)
https://panzercorps.fandom.com/wiki/How ... nzer_Corps
https://panzercorps.fandom.com/wiki/Anti-tank
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 3336315641

[proline]

Thanks for the opinions. I'll pass on using a towed AT gun.

The 8.8cm Pak has a vicious hard attack of 24 for the cost of 270+truck. Such a hard attack would cost 600 for an Elefant or jagd panther, or 990 for a tiger 2. So there's definitely a potential cost and cap hit benefit. Furthermore, since it is soft and tank destroyers (self propelled AT units) have almost no soft attack, it can directly attack units like the vicious SU-100 without them being able to fight back. That would be extremely expensive for other units to do.

However, it has two big drawbacks. First, with a movement of 1 it is hard to get it into combat, especially in offensive situations which is most of the time. In PzC, a weaker unit that is almost always in the fight, eg a Sturmpanzer, can be vastly superior to a better unit that rarely fights, eg a 21 cm Mrs 18 with its move of 1 and low ammo. The solution is to have a few armored AT units from early on and when 1-3 of them get a move hero those become my 8.8cm Pak.

Second problem is that it is very fragile to air, artillery, and infantry. This means that in open terrain it needs to be right next to both air defense and artillery. Putting it in close terrain cuts down the air attacks by half, meaning you might get away with just artillery support. The artillery support it needs is something with a high rate of fire that will stop infantry, eg a 30 cm Nblwf 43. With regards to enemy artillery attacks, if there's a lot of enemy artillery around you have to be mindful that it might get fully suppressed and retreat. The main reason I lose 88s is not because they were completely destroyed, but because I forgot to leave a retreat path. It's easy to let them get surrounded, particularly if you are using two of the six hexes next to them for artillery and AA support.

Overall, the towed AT are not useless if they have a move hero and can be effective but require a fair bit of skill to use. You may find that you do just as well without them. That said, it is very satisfying to see a 12 strength 88, which still costs far less than a tiger 2, completely devastate an expensive enemy tank or tank destroyer.

[stormbringer3]

Proline,
Thanks for your response. A few years ago, when this forum and game were a lot more active, you gave excellent advice and info. This is another example.

[ClumsyCommander]

I may be wrong but towed AT guns generally seem to become available in more powerful hard attack variants a bit earlier than comparable mobile AT weapons and heavier tanks.

For example, I'm playing the Allied campaign (or one of them, I haven't checked yet) and the really heavy British AT gun with 24 hard attack is available before you get any kind of other AT or tank that can put out that damage.

I've found they can be quite simple to use against the AI; just move them up in a truck directly behind your frontline like you normally would with artillery. Eventually enemy tanks will get bogged down in an area where they can't retreat easily, and then you just move a gap in your line and slip the AT gun in. Suddenly those tanks are sat next to something that does a ton of damage to them.

Another strategy that works against both players and AI is the "retaliation" use of the gun. Keep the gun one hex back from other flanking friendly units on the front so the enemy can't get through to it in one turn through zone of control. They are then in the position of having to take a 24 hard attack hit to any tank that parks against the rest of your line for an attack; something no commander ever wants. If they try to park infantry there instead, they're going to get hit by artillery and all the other stuff you have lined up.

I sometimes prefer to keep them in rough terrain unless there are infantry about. The nightmare scenario is Tactical Bombers and the terrain helps with that as Proline said above. Also, some of the later tanks have really high Initiative values, sometimes more than the AT gun, rough terrain capping that might help you out a bit as far as I understand. Otherwise open terrain is good to protect from infantry and to use the AT gun's otherwise high initiative.

Also the last advantage is that AT guns are actually quite effective against soft targets with artillery backing too, packing the same soft attack as a low experience light infantry unit. Not good enough that you'd use them deliberately against soft targets, but they can actually hurt infantry a bit on the defensive. Unlike artillery which gets mauled by infantry when exposed.