Suicidal Seljuqs a short campaign

[Surt]

First part of this is here : https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117873 (On the Empires AARs as Kingdoms AARs didn't exits then).

Turn 38 plan continued
Also send two peasant to act as garrison/observers to newly conquered and a far east Asian border region, where an enemy might come from.

Turn 38 Result
check difficulty is Suicidal! (as I rotate this game with multi-player and test games which has different difficulties it sometimes reset to balanced, I haven't yet figured out why)

Our peasant didn't even reach Aghtamar before it revolted ...
Luckily our former vassal become ally Annazid randomly walked in and defeated them, returning it to us.

Our most loyal vassal finally lends troops. (just as I said they were useless and didn't give me troops last turn, oh well)

VassalLendsTroops.JPG (166.08 KiB) Viewed 871 times

Lets see if we can afford that!

Edessa:
Manbij: +Iman, +Merc Bow, +Light Javelinmen, +rediculous claim from Numayrids.
Edessa: unrest and pacification gone, we are happy

Jibal:
Qazvin: solid foundation, extra siege resistance, to see how much you got now mouseover the Stronghold Site in the military row. -> Tournament grounds, we don't have any and we use the capital region to recruit our Mamluks atm. (not to mention we need to increase our military average over the regions, that will mostly be forts and peasants, plus the odd penalty remover or promoter).
Hamadan: Small Mosque -> Landlord, we want to upgrade this to Emir.
Isfahan news service

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2 of the 4 Indian close fighters we got from the Ghaz, lets see if they upgrade to something nice or they just are OK medium fighters, they are good in forest and rough, which could be a bonus as our heavy is clumsy in bad terrain.

Khuzestan:
Sus: Craftsmen -> nobles Timber keep

Iraq:
Heet; Subsistence -> Pilgrim, we have zero piety generation (no auth for edicting Musalla or stewardship building).
Karbala: Peasant, we will round up some immediately, they will happily serve the Sultan -> Hamlet
Kirkuk: Road -> Town crier, we need to generate more than zero stewardship to be able to build Landlord eventually.

Khorasan:
Sheberghan: +1 pop

Vasprakania:
Arzes: Pilgrim
Aghtamar: revolted, reconquered, pillaged, raided, -pop, at least the commerce penalty is capped at 100% as it would be -140% if not!!!

Fars:
Shiraz: Sheep

Sawad:
Kufa: Subsistence.
Basra: Raided!!! we build a Light Javelinman to see what we are dealing with.

No Province:
Termez: Musalla -> Herbalist we need to heal more.

Nearly no new buildings giving us money, the new armies we got from our vassal costs a lot, if we can't increase the earnings we will have to disband some of the merc we bought the last turns.

RGD:
Show of auth -> not very useful as it requires a noble and we actually mostly want to use it where there is no noble to get more stewardship to be able to build certain buildings that needs some level of stored stewardship like Heet which has zero atm. but its free so I just use it on a random low pup region, none of the 4 pop has a noble so Samosata gets it.

Insult Mirdasids to be able to attack them if we get a claim.

1. Ordu moves to Manbij in expectation that we will attack Mirdasids ruling Aleppo.
2. Ordu moves to Doliche, Edessa, to be able to coordinate attack on Alexandretta with with 1. Ordu if needed.
As our advisor pointed out the enemy will sortie if they have more units than us, which is what we would want if they didn't live on a mountain and its their capital which gives extra good defenders. When we arrive with more than 24 units we will see if siege or trap will be most effective.
3. Ordu waits for 3 archers then will storm
41. Ordu, some of the vassal troops will gather in his capital moving in from the east, until we decide what to do with them and balancing out the army.

I might be too cautious here, as I got some really good Daylami troops that might overpower any resistance.

The Ghaznavids has defeated an uprising and started a new war with their former vassal, another mountain realm Nasrid. And are now only at war with them and a single Indian state.

1. We have peers in all domains.
2. We can expand a bit more, but we are holding somewhat back because we need to get to green auth
3. We can progress if we get enough tokens
4. If we don't want our leader killed we want to have a domestic spy network, if we want to bad things to our enemies we want a spy network there too, waiting for one for Fatimids and then whoever seems to get most legit, as they might need an accident with their great leader.
5. Meh, I know what it is supposed to do but it doesn't really tell much useful.
6. We are lacking somewhat in Imams and Nobles, but we don't want to prioritize those as we got lots of other things we want.

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[Surt]

Turn 39 result

Ghaznavids show what happens when you just assault a mountain city on the move.

Ghaz39CityAssault.JPG (395.79 KiB) Viewed 861 times

OK this was 2nd round, first round both lost a unit, and it wasn't nearly a total wipe, but all his infantry are damaged a lot.

We finally get out of the red Auth zone, but we need 9 more auth to go green.

Now after we bought a lot of troops our vassals finally delivers, Uqaylids lends 7 units.

Edessa:
Doloche: noting the missing noble here, the Sultan promotes one, at least he is Sunni, but he is also Greek ...
Edessa: Discreet hamlet, +25 food -> Goat, the many troops here will need some food, the 25 we just got will be gone fast and the Domain is negative 14 as everyone is building stuff.
Manbij:

EdessaT40.JPG (283.18 KiB) Viewed 861 times

Note:
That everyone is on infra, except infidel clerks as they are no use.
Building Bakery despite no Barley, where can I even get Barley? open the search and look for Barley Field, OK somewhere in Germany and Thrace, but it is not a trade good so can't import ... so why can't I build it ... click on Barley Field and look at prerequisite, OK not in Arid and Mountain, OK I got other terrain, Manorial Demesne or Estate ... but how about Iqta??? no barley??? (see question in main forum).

Sawad:
Al Qadisiyyah: Timber keep, +25 Steward -> really wanted a +stewardship but no offered, but we will take Craftsmen as we suck at production too.

Khuzastan:
Sus: Timber keep, +25 steward -> Medical practitioner health and a little money.
Ahwas: Sheep, keep all on infra to finish building in the two other regions.

Iraq:
Heet: Pilgrim
Karbala: Hamlet


Melitene:
Germanikeia: Musalla -> Goat, no other good offers.

Kohrasan:
Konjikala: Modest Barn
Sarah: Craftsmens.
Herat: +1 pop -> Landlord
Tus: +1 pop -> Traders, on trade route.
Maymana: Toolsmith (missing iron, hope the boni in the other regions pays for it).

Tabaristan:
Gorgan: Craftsmen. all stay on infra as we want to finish the Emit in Amol.

Jibal:
Qazvin: Tournament, +1 pop -> Craftsmen, we want to use fewer pops on infra later.
Isfahan news:

NewsT40.JPG (254.92 KiB) Viewed 861 times

Remind me we need to take claims from Byzant next time.

No Province:
Rayy: +1 pop -> Beekeeper, we wanted to remove the impediment Extreme weather, but none of the buildings are available. No fortification can be done because we need to build a fort first, so no reroll. At least we wont have to wait so long for next pop.

RGD:
Sap auth -> try to steal a token from Byzant for 3 auth, their leader is 1-3-3- our is 4-0-3 so what stat do we look at as the sum is equal. Lets see the result next turn.
Attract migrants -> Balkh, steal pop from our neighbour/vassal.
Forge claim -> Homs in Aleppo, we need the claim to make cheaper dows.
We save councillor for our heir who soon comes of age and need a domain for himself.

Armies
1&2. Ordo Moves into Alexandretta to overwhelm the enemy, we speculate in the enemy not going out as we are many more than them.
3. Ordo storms Kars with the new archers and the vassal army it should be good.
4. Ordu is still forming.

Gold is falling fast, we will see how many units we lose this turn before deciding what to disband.
MP is still good thanks to a lot of peasants round ups, hamlets etc.

[Surt]

Turn 40 result
Ghaznavids tries again and loses badly against their former vassal.
They later sortie, but are repelled.

For unknown reasons the field army in Alexandretta sorties alone, it was garrisoned last turn.

Alexandretta40.JPG (420.32 KiB) Viewed 856 times

that might not be their best idea as my 2 field armies join up and ... losing only a vassal merc Daylami with the other severely wounded we win.

The siege of Kars was a bit anti-climatic as it just surrendered ... or rather the neutral army stomped it and we got it, maybe because we outnumbered them 5:1?
The 3. Ordu will stay and try to stomp out the Pretty Noble there

We took a token, but fell down into red again

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Tabaristan:
Gorgan: +1 pop, nobles want to build regional roads, we agree despite having the option of Iqta, as we want to upgrade to paved road to remove the impediment.
Amol: Emir -> Harem(national wonder), what is a Sultan without, insuring the line of succession.

Fars:
Darbgerd: Regional road by nobles.
Shiraz:

ShirazTimedEvent..JPG (44.87 KiB) Viewed 856 times

What timed event?

Khorasan
Balkh: attract migrants worked better than planed, we got +2 pop, one from each of the 2 vassal regions.
Sheberghan: Small Mosque -> Regional road

Khuzastan:
Arrajan: Cemetery -> Chicken

Sawad:
Basra: +1 pop -> Timber keep, we need to build up so we don't get raided so much.

Iraq:
Samarra: Small Mosque -> road
Kirkuk: Town crier.
Anbar: +1 pop -> Bakery

Edessa:
Doliche: road -> Subsistence

Jibal:
Isfahan: +1 pop -> Small Mosque, need more piety.

No province:
Termez: +1 pop

RGD:
+Remove civilized -> Ahlat, minor fiefdom.

1. Ordu assault and stay
2. Ordu assault and move on to Laodicee to finish off the Cilicians.
3. Ordu will stay and try to stomp out the petty nobles.
4. Ordu moves toward Isfahan as we need a garrison there, we will later replace some of the vassal troops with Seljuqs. Helps avoid coups when under loyal command.

[Surt]

Turn 41 result

The battle of Alexandrette turned out to be somewhat one sided, with the Seljuq nearly doing a TPW on the Cilicians.

Alexandretta41JPG.JPG (188.11 KiB) Viewed 814 times

Nearly every battle creates a slave camp, that is immediately dismantled a turn later, our original slave camps still exists.

Sheberghan was raided by the garrison throw them back.
The heretic Qarmatians beg for cooperation, we graciously agree to the less fortunate.
Ghaznavids have defeated the mountain realm of the Nasrids, wiping them out.
Byzant destroy our spy network, what a shame.

News 41

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We despise them!


Ahlat: minor fief confiscated. -> Town watch (7 turns ... hopefully one of the other regions will build more infra).
Ahwas: Thiefs rise, no stewardship is produced.
Arrajan: chicken -> Mourners.
Konjikala: +1 pop -> hamlet, we will be missing legumes a lot here, but if we upgrade we can miss cloth instead!
Heet: +1 pop -> hamlet.
Baghdad: +1 pop -> troup de loup.
Herat: Landlord
Gorgan: regional roads -> Landlord
Darabgerd: regional roads.
Isfahan: Small Mosque -> Calligrapher, maybe we can get a servant here?
Hamadan: Landlord
Hilah: Fruits
Anbar: Bakery
Kirkuk: Christian convert, nobody wants to live as an infidel.
Karbala: announces that having a Traders Borough is kewl.

Plan 42
We play sneak attack on Mirdasids so we can take some regions before the Byzantines take them all.
Als we need to keep the war machine going so our vassal troops don't leave us.

1. Ordu moves to MaArra, the capital of the Mirdasids.
2. Ordu moves assaulting to Homs, through the besieged Masyaf, which we hope to take before the Byzantines else move on to Homs.
3. Ordu stays to fight the petty noble again 2. turn.
4. Ordu is renamed Isfahan garrison and should arrive next turn.

[Surt]

Turn 42 Results

We take Masyaf on the march, one we suffer one severely wounded.

Kakuyuids send 6 regiments to help us.

Arrajan: +1 Imam, mourner -> Iqta
Qasvin: Craftsmen, -fiefdom -> Beekeper for health
Herat: noble Road.
Samarra: road -> noble Discreet hamlet.
Edessa: Goat (the Sultan knows he is) -> Musalla, show those oxies where the wind is blowing.
Baghdad: Troup de loup, +1 rem. host. -> Modest barn.
Termes: Herbie -> Qasaba, I think those nomads to the north east is up to no good.
Maymana: Traders -> peasants.
Merv: +1 pop -> Landlord
Tus: traders
Navahand: +1 pop -> Weaver, we will soon need more cloth.
Hamadan: +1 pop -> Edict Copper Depot.
Rayy: Beekeeper.
Sus: Medical -> Musalla
Wasit: +1 pop -> Musalla
Sharaban: traders -> Qasaba, we want a bit more stewardship to be able to build landlord.

News 43

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Aytug is only in very good health ... the throne is endangered.

Plan 43
RGD:
Remove hostile, improved to high -> Ahwas, bad region needs improvement.
Fight plague, no current outbreak


3. Ordu continues is hunt for pretty noble. 3rd turn.
2. Ordu storms Homs and move to Hamah.
1. Ordu sieges MaArra while waiting for reinforcements.
Capital guards absorb Isfahan guards
New vassal troops mostly move to Byzantian boarder in expectation they will attack (or be attacked).

[Surt]

Turn 43 Result
We insult the Emir of Tarabulus, so we can attack soon.


The Mirdasids rebel against the Byzantines at the most inopportune time

Revolt43.JPG (234.15 KiB) Viewed 778 times

8 regiments are destroyed ... -0.9 auth from SAU that Veteran Muslim Spearmen really hurt.

2nd Ordu storms Homs, unfortunately the trade road is destroyed.


Sharaban: Qasaba, +50 stew.
Sus: Musalla, -1 fief.
Samarra: Descreet hamlet, +25 food -> Dung cart, this is kewl tech.
Ahwas; - thiefs, should have been the Irreducible tribe, but then again they are Irreducible!!!
Maymana: +32 infra, life is good.
Konjikala: Hamlet.
Heet: Hamlet
Baghdad: Modest barn.
Balkh: Iqta (major) -> Caligrapher
Herat: Road
Gorgan: Landlord, keep peasants on infra to help province.
Shiraz: +1 pop -> Iqta.
Qazvin: Beekeeper.
Wasait: Musalla
Doliche: Subsistence -> Goat
Samosata: Chicken.




News:

News44.JPG (74.45 KiB) Viewed 778 times

Our sons health degrade again, we need to pray harder!

1. Ordu continues sieging MaArra but will not succeed yet. We recruit a few units that are to join it instead of the 8 killed units.
2. Ordu storms Hamah before moving north to Aleppo
3. Ordu continues hunting pretty nobles, 4th turn.

[Surt]

Turn 44 result


2. Ordu Storms Hamah and moves north to Aleppo and taking it too.
3. Ordu finally kills the petty noble


Basra: Timberkeep, +25 stew -> Wood cuttings.
Sheberghan: Regional roads -> Timber keep(nobles) good choice as we don't want to be raided.
Anbar: nobles build Timber keep
Kars: Mourner, -salt mine by raiders, -petty noble -> Musalla
Hamah: -> Cemetery
Manbij: Bakery -> Sheep
Germanikeia: Goat -> trench and stakes
Maymana: peasants -> Regional roads.
Hazar: Anchorage -> Chicken
Isfahan: Caligrapher.
Navahand: Weaver.
Karbala: +1 pop -> Rudimentary earthworks.
Samarra: Dung Cart -> Rudimentary earthworks.
Kirkuk: +1 pop -> Well



1. Ordu the siege continue, some recruits move to reinforce.
2. Ordu moves north to defeat the rebels in Alexandretta.
3. Ordu moves out to Arzes as it has eaten all the food in Kars.

The Seljuqs and their relations.

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The armies of the world

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Even though we got the larger army, the Byzantines has 3 times the regions and 2.5 times more pop.
Also they gained 7 regions in one turn ...

[Surt]

Turn 45 Report

Another revolt in now Germanikeia, who take the region, we will use an absorb minon on them so that the armies don't need to go there and destroy the region.

Alexandretta holds out and our 2. Ordu defeat the rebels.

Ghaznavids decides to attack another of their vassals.

Balkh: Caligrapher -> Dom. Expending.
Sheberghan: Timberkeep, +25 stew. -> Fortified Village, maybe it will stop raiders from the hordes? the other hordes, we are actually also a horde, that like the modern amities of the Persians.
Maymana: +1 pop
Merv: Landlord -> Timberkeep
Sarah: +1 pop -> Peasant roundup, we can't have them run away.
Hamadan: Copper depot, we hope this will sell well.
Qazvin: +1 pop -> Iqta Major.
Samarra: Rude Earthworks -> Imam house, a religious craftsmanship is needed.
Anbar: Timberkeep, +25 stew.
Ahlat: Town Watch -> Pilgrim
Samosata: +1 pop -> Musalla
Edessa: Musalla -> road.

News 45

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RGD:
Absorb minor on Germanikeia
+Embezzelment on Ayaz loyalty 51.
Witchcraft on Andac, loyalty 19
+remove hostile on Ahwas's Occultist.

2. Ordu moves to help the siege of MaArra, which 1. Ordu is still not able to take.
3. Ordu is awaiting orders.

[Surt]

Turn 46 result
Peace with Byzant ends, we should attack them again!

The Heir is given Tabaristan to rule after his predecessor was guilty in embezzlement.
Also the Governor of Edessa was guilty, the Sultan said so himself.

Konjikala : +1 pop -> Qasaba, need more military buildings.
Termez: Qasaba, +50 stew -> Subsistance
Sheberghan: Fortified Village, our prefered low-level fort ->
Mayamana: Regional road -> Modest barn
Hazar: +1 pop
Bushehr: +1 pop -> village, really needed food
Sarah: Peasants -> Exotic merchant, maybe he brings some nice stuff.
Shiraz: Iqta, don't think we get offered any Shiraz wine here ...
Arrajan: Iqta.
Sus: +1 pop -> -Small Mosque, we are modest!
Amol: The national wonder Harem, the Sultan will inspect this thoroughly now that the corrupt noble here has been eliminated.
Kufa: +1 pop -> goat, we need food in these arid steppes.
Karbala: Rudi earthworks. -> Timber walls.
Kirkuk: Well
Aleppo: Traders ->Tenants houses. lots of bonus.
Dolice: Goat -> unrest, Musalla.
Kars: Musalla -> Cow
Ahlat: Pilgrim
Aghtamar: +1 noble -> Discreet hamlet.r
Ahwaz: - occultist.
Germanikeia: returned to us -> Village green for +8 loyalty.


The Sultan wonders why we cant build Legumes fields in our arid like the Eastern Qarakhanid can?
Legumes farms are limited to non-arid.

RGD:
Councillor -> Heir
Restore order -> Aghtamar.

We will storm Maara

MaArra47.JPG (144.07 KiB) Viewed 507 times

We forgot that we would lose 7 auth for Dowing the Byzantines, would have been perfect as their troops are also trying to take MaArra..

Diplo.
We insult the Romans as we don't want to lose 7 auth for the Dow. And we are already too low right now.
We also insult Alexandria in Tarabulus to have someone else to DoW next turn if the above fails.
And also another random minor is insulted.

ps. we should have done this turns ago.

[Surt]

Turn 47 result:

The Exhausted defenders of MaArra fall easily to our troops, an overeager general dies 2-1.

Another revolt, this time in Manbij, we lose again, so an absorb is played agains.

Balkh: Dom. Expansion, epidemic no result -> Peasant
MaArra: conquest -> sheep
Laodicee: Mourner -> Pilgrim
Van: +1 pop -> Trench
Konjukala: Qasaba, +50 stew
Aleppo: Iqta -> Musalla
Heet: +pop -> Trench
Al Qadishyyah: Craftsmen.
Basra: Wood cutting.
Sheberghan: Hamlet (now -2 legumens) -> Iqta major.
Maymana: Modest Barn -> Musalla
Hazar: Chicken -> Peasant
Arrajan: +pop -> Crude melter
Navahand: Pop -> Open Canalization, less stinky than not having anything.
Rayy: +pop -> Fortified Village. We actually needed something to remove the Extreme weather.
Ahwaz: +pop -> Craftsmens.
Karbala: Timber wall -> Farm, we have pop 9 so the Sufi would not have been useful.
Sumarra: Imam house.
Anbar: +pop -> Exotic merchant.
Samosata: Mosalla.

Diplo:
We need to bite the sling bullet it seems, no one we can dow cheaper than the Romans so be it.
We tell the Alexandrians what we think about them anyway.

1. Ordu move south to take the 2 Byzantine regions there.
2. Ordu will take on Antioch eventually.
3. Ordu wait till it either go for the Roman vassal or move on Roman regions itself.
4. Ordu is awaiting reinforcements for now in Melitene, but none have been recruited.

[SuitedQueens]

The Exhausted defenders of MaArra fall easily to our troops, an overeager general dies 2-1.

Another revolt, this time in Manbij, we lose again, so an absorb is played agains.

Diplo:
We need to bite the sling bullet it seems, no one we can dow cheaper than the Romans so be it.
We tell the Alexandrians what we think about them anyway.

Absorb Minor kind of nice in this game in this game compared to Empires. Free Abandoned regions and getting stuff back from Rebels. Anyway, you overrate National Authority. If you been following my LP I easily managed 100+ turns with about 30 Negative Authority and a few turns flying around 0. Thats especially not so painful for big nations with plethora of regions that produce Legacy. Thats the only real pain of a low National Authority. The other mechanics are minor insignificant sideeffects.

[Surt]

The Exhausted defenders of MaArra fall easily to our troops, an overeager general dies 2-1.

Another revolt, this time in Manbij, we lose again, so an absorb is played agains.

Diplo:
We need to bite the sling bullet it seems, no one we can dow cheaper than the Romans so be it.
We tell the Alexandrians what we think about them anyway.

Absorb Minor kind of nice in this game in this game compared to Empires. Free Abandoned regions and getting stuff back from Rebels. Anyway, you overrate National Authority. If you been following my LP I easily managed 100+ turns with about 30 Negative Authority and a few turns flying around 0. Thats especially not so painful for big nations with plethora of regions that produce Legacy. Thats the only real pain of a low National Authority. The other mechanics are minor insignificant sideeffects.

So sliding into old is not so bad as I think?

[SuitedQueens]

So sliding into old is not so bad as I think?

Depends on your knowledge an active engagement with the game. You can stay above your Demesne limit no problem because thats -0.2 per regions and its very easy to get 0.3 Authority per region on average. If you maximized Character related RGDs then you have bunch of Generals with above 75 Loyalty, so you don't care about Seceding Generals. Coups are very rare and won't end your Lineage 99% of the time. Civil Wars spawn rather insignificant stacks thats are easy to deal with especially if you have Vassals and Allies.

Court Expenses will be counteracted by Gold production once Just Conquered and Under Pacification statuses are gone after 10 turns. Unrest has a low chance to trigger and produces weak rebels that can be crushed by AutoGarrison. Remember that you can always feed low quality regions to Vassals or Allies. The only benefit is SAU limit increase, but if you are efficient player you can maintain 3 times as much SAUs as your limit due to Diplomacy and Recruit RGDs like me as Estonia currently.

The only real downside is huge Legacy income penalty but you as a big nation have more base than all opponents. I'm as Estonia have to fight giant wars for the rest of the game to get 1000 War Score for 10000 Legacy Concessions and cut off opponent territories to destroy their Legacy gain. And maybe the fact that Civ 1 nations often don't get Regional Decisions, Civ 2 one per turn, rarely 2, while Civ 3 often get 2 per turn.