Upgrade of Toerni, Lagus and Savanto

[Grondel]

I am currently thinking about promoting the 3 heroes u got during Winter War in 39.
Currently they have these traits and bonuses. They will stay in their unit type.




Any suggestions are welcome.

sers,
Thomas

[robman]

Lagus is an interesting mix. I normally stop using towed AT guns once SP guns become available, but this hero would definitely encourage me to keep a towed gun in the mix!

Toerni and Savanto strike me as very useful and not "over-overpowered."

[Grondel]

Lagus is an interesting mix. I normally stop using towed AT guns once SP guns become available, but this hero would definitely encourage me to keep a towed gun in the mix!

Toerni and Savanto strike me as very useful and not "over-overpowered."

Those are the versions u get in 1939. I am currently working on 1941 and want to give them their historical promotions.

Current WIP is:
Savanto replaces famous with provocator
Toerni replaces + initiative with avenger
Lagus replaces fast deployment with unyielding (switching from towed to selfpropelled. U can get 2 StuGIIE in the scenario )

Any suggestions to improve in anotherway are welcome. Even a complete remix of stats/traits is possible. They just need to stay in their unit type.

sers,
Thomas

[Tassadar]

Lagus makes me wish for heroes applicable to towed units only, as an extra restriction. You could entertains options like even +2 Speed and Double Move instead of Fast Deployment then for a unique option that's not abusable on SPGs. Also, is Forced March technically possible to give on a hero? Never thought about it, but if it is, that's a fun little niche application.

As for Törni, in my custom modified AAR for AO series, I used the below settings. In retrospect No Supply was there sjut to experiment with it and wasn't really synergistic, so that was one I'd cut. Fearsome Reputations was flavorful, maybe could serve as a upgrade/replacement for later years? After all, he had a bounty on his head which is quite unusual. Ignores ZOC or Double Move also seem interesting to emphasis his unit's mobility and ability to strike in unpredictable places.

[Grondel]

Lagus makes me wish for heroes applicable to towed units only, as an extra restriction. You could entertains options like even +2 Speed and Double Move instead of Fast Deployment then for a unique option that's not abusable on SPGs. Also, is Forced March technically possible to give on a hero? Never thought about it, but if it is, that's a fun little niche application.

Sadly restricing heros to specific units is not possible, only unit types. Puzzled about that for the artillery version of Wittmann. tried restricting him to StuGIII instead of all artillerie, but that is sadly not possible.

Not sure about the Forced march. I ran into an issue when i added fast deploy to the 7.5cm guns. Rundakort had to change the gamecode to make that hero/general trait work as a unit.trait.
But i´ll find out and let u know. surely a good idea.

As for Törni, in my custom modified AAR for AO series, I used the below settings. In retrospect No Supply was there sjut to experiment with it and wasn't really synergistic, so that was one I'd cut. Fearsome Reputations was flavorful, maybe could serve as a upgrade/replacement for later years? After all, he had a bounty on his head which is quite unusual. Ignores ZOC or Double Move also seem interesting to emphasis his unit's mobility and ability to strike in unpredictable places.

I currently like the prudent/avenger combination. No Retaliation is one of the heavily restricted heroes due to his power.
I try to not use it much.

Ignore ZOC/NoSupply would fit him fine since he did lot´s of special ops behind enemy lines. maybe i´ll do that in 1944.

Thx for the input.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

Looks like I havent played the mod for a while, I cant remeber any of the guys.

Only thing I suggest is to remove prudent. If a get one of these traits I know I will abuse it, some overstrength, zero slot and I have an unkillable unit...you could exchange it with no surrender, or units never retreats...is this a trait?!

When it comes to fighter heroes, afaik there is always some +2 air attack. Maybe +2 air defense could be something for a promotion.

[Grondel]

Looks like I havent played the mod for a while, I cant remeber any of the guys.

Only thing I suggest is to remove prudent. If a get one of these traits I know I will abuse it, some overstrength, zero slot and I have an unkillable unit...you could exchange it with no surrender, or units never retreats...is this a trait?!

When it comes to fighter heroes, afaik there is always some +2 air attack. Maybe +2 air defense could be something for a promotion.

They show up at the end of 1939.U can do operation "Aufwartung"(fictional german involvement in Winter War and my first goes at defensive scenarios) instead of "Weserübung".

Sure there is mostly attack? pretty sure there are many defensive air heroes in the mod, might be they mostly have evasive instead of extra def. I´ll keep that in mind. Thx for the input.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

Sure there is mostly attack? pretty sure there are many defensive air heroes in the mod, might be they mostly have evasive instead of extra def. I´ll keep that in mind. Thx for the input.

I could bewrong, but I remember several situations in 1944/1945/1946, especially in the AO Redone Mod, when you fight like 150 fighters.
With DvG they dont care about support fire, they attack my bombers and when my fighter is out of ammo they start to kill them. Even the strongest fighters like the Me262 get shown down pretty easily, even with all the air medals. Galland, Bär and the other guys do not really help, making the fighter more tanky. So for me it would be nice to build some "tanks", but without prudent.
I am not sure about the evasive trait, when there are only 5 star units it feels like it makes no difference.

Is it possible, that traits scale with the years? I mean +2 air attack is a lot when your base number is 10!
But in 1944, when something like 26 is normal, its not so much...
Or something like "its time for promotions!" in any years, before the first scenario. You can pick like 5 heroes and upgrade +2 air attack to +3 air attack.
But tbh it sounds like a lot of work and could be game breaking again, if you promote one hero all the time and in 1945 a Panzer IV can easily kill an IS-2 with some upgraded heroes

While I am writing here, an extra ammo hero/trait for fighters would be very nice and something unique I guess. At some point your fighters start to have only 4 ammo, thats not a lot;)

[scorehouse]

which series were these heroes? did they disappear after Finland? were they in the 1939 remake where you begin with the 4 preludes to build your core?

[Grondel]

which series were these heroes? did they disappear after Finland? were they in the 1939 remake where you begin with the 4 preludes to build your core?

They show up at the end of 1939 since the rework in the alternate history path u can play instead of "Weserübung".
They do not disappear and will get a promotion(upgrade) in the 1941 Winter War scenario that will be added with Julies update to the mod.

sers,
Thomas

[Grondel]

I could bewrong, but I remember several situations in 1944/1945/1946, especially in the AO Redone Mod, when you fight like 150 fighters.

I remember those situation, too. issue here is that the enemy AI has all it´s units on the map from the start and can move them around freely.
In the PC1 remake mod i try to avoid that.
First most(not all)planes are stuck at their airfield. they will attack units that come in range, but will not redeploy to a diffrent airfield to get closer. In combination with bigger maps this distributes the enemy airforce over the map and prevents that extreme swarming one sometimes ran into in the AO.
In addition i envented a script that will keep the enemy airforce active over a longer time of the scenario without having to place have a million (yeye, exageration i know) fighters on the map at start.
We will see in 44/45, especially in the defensive scenarios if this will be enough or if i need to get creative again.

Is it possible, that traits scale with the years? I mean +2 air attack is a lot when your base number is 10!
But in 1944, when something like 26 is normal, its not so much...
Or something like "its time for promotions!" in any years, before the first scenario. You can pick like 5 heroes and upgrade +2 air attack to +3 air attack.

Sadly those things are beyond our reach atm or i would have dabled a lot with those medals already.
All we can do is change the number of needed kills/overruns etc. to gain the +1/+2/+3,etc.

While I am writing here, an extra ammo hero/trait for fighters would be very nice and something unique I guess. At some point your fighters start to have only 4 ammo, thats not a lot;)

In 1943NH 2nd training midcampaign u get a hero that adds +3 to ammo and can be attached to any unit, but i´ll keep the extra ammo in mind for 44/45.

thx for the input.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

In the PC1 remake mod i try to avoid that.
First most(not all)planes are stuck at their airfield. they will attack units that come in range, but will not redeploy to a diffrent airfield to get closer. In combination with bigger maps this distributes the enemy airforce over the map and prevents that extreme swarming one sometimes ran into in the AO.

Yeah well, I am not a big fan of that behaviour. You already have that in the huge AO redone maps, when the maps are that big, you cant even transfer from one airport to the next one.
It always feels like 3 scenarios in 1, you fight the airforce, proceed forward and somehow out of nowthere there are a lot of planes again.I guess a human player would not send his airforce one by one, he would group them together, either by getting the reinforcements to the frontline or fall back to one place.
Maybe the grounded planes more often would make sense. Could give the player more options.
If you are fast enough you can kill some on the ground. If you are slower, you could let them come to the frontlines instead of getting suprised.
But actually thats a lategame problem when to many heroes, experience and stuff are breaking the game mechanics.

Sadly those things are beyond our reach atm or i would have dabled a lot with those medals already.
All we can do is change the number of needed kills/overruns etc. to gain the +1/+2/+3,etc.

I was relating on your hero upgrade system, not on the medals.
Galland in 1939: +2 Air attack
Galland in 1940: +3 Air attack (if you invest your "upgrade/promotion points")
[...]
Galland in 1945: + 8 Air Attack
Or can you not create new traits like +3 air attack, there is just the +2 air attack?

In 1943NH 2nd training midcampaign u get a hero that adds +3 to ammo and can be attached to any unit, but i´ll keep the extra ammo in mind for 44/45.

Yeah true, I forgot about that guy. I guess I put him on a artillery unit. I tend to never change heroes and stuff when not necessary.

[Grondel]

I was relating on your hero upgrade system, not on the medals.
Galland in 1939: +2 Air attack
Galland in 1940: +3 Air attack (if you invest your "upgrade/promotion points")
[...]
Galland in 1945: + 8 Air Attack
Or can you not create new traits like +3 air attack, there is just the +2 air attack?

Ah ok, yes that would work. any number is possible here, haven´t run into any limitations so far.
I´ll keep that in mind when going forward.

sers,
Thomas