Oh dear, Vassals have left me in the lurch!

[rob_tomcat]

I am not sure what has happened in my Grand Campaign playing as Castilla. Up until T29 my 3 vassals were all showing "Is Vassal", they are Allied to Castilla, there is Vassal Commerce on the money drop down and I can enter their regions.

Then on T30 their status (all 3) changes to Neutral toward Castilla, the "Is Vassal" tooltip has disappeared, there is no Vassal Commerce on the money drop down and I cannot move into any of their territories. I am not aware of anything I have done to change the status of all 3 vassals at once.

So what has gone wrong or is this a bug? I have the save game available from the end of T29 if anyone wants to look at it. I have rerun this save several times and it always gives the same result losing all 3 vassals. I even tried changing the end of T29 by gifting all 3 vassals some metal but exactly the same result happened with them becomiong Neutral towards me and denying me access to their territories!

[Surt]

Is the version 1.0.6.0 or .1 or .2?

[rob_tomcat]

Currently Kingdoms v1.06.02 when I tried to rerun saved end of T29 and got the same result as previously, but originally when it happened earlier this week, it was the previous release.

[Surt]

The usual way this happens is when you mistaken make yourself vassal of someone else, been there more than once ...

[rob_tomcat]

Hmmm! You could be right as I did have interaction with another Nation during the last turn. But how do I tell if I have made myself a vassal? No message came up to this effect at the end of turn. It doesn't say "Is Vassal" when I click on my capital - as it said for my previous vassals. On my Castella Nation Panel screen, it does say "Vassal:0" showing I have lost my vassals but under the Money dropdown it does not say I am sending any money to my overlord.

Aha! I have just gone into diplomacy and under Treaties it says "Navarra - Is Liege"!! So just gone into Navarra's home base and it says "Castilla - Is Vassal"!!

But that's crazy. I certainly did nothing intentionally to become their Vassal, and even if I did, why is there no end ot turn message to state this and also to state I have lost my 3 current vassals as just about everything else in the game seems to generate an end of turn message! I am also staggered nothing I can see in my Nation information tells me I am now somebody's vassal.

Thanks for resolving the issue but Slitherine/Kingdoms should at the very least put out a message at the end of turn to say I have now become somebody's vassal and lost all my own vassals!

[Surt]

I only know it because I did it myself ... several times, I didn't check who was on left or right side and assumed things, now I always double check.
Also I just got reminded as I saw a YT series where he did the same ... that might be why I suddenly remembered what it was.

[Surt]

Go a couple of turns back and load the save.

[rob_tomcat]

Yes, thanks, I will go back a turn and replay it. Being new at Kingdoms, I always manually save at the end of ever turn just in case .

Out of interest who on YT did you watch doing the same thing?

[Surt]

Its the first edition of the game, Empires where the Egyptian player is a bit confused over that happen, don't remember when.
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117713

[rob_tomcat]

Many thanks for all your help. I will follow up that link in due course .

[Pocus]

Tell me if that's what happened. And you are not the first indeed falling into the trap of reversing the vassal clause. I should add a warning somewhere!
If you are sure you did not submit to a new liege, post the turn before the event.

[rob_tomcat]

Tell me if that's what happened. And you are not the first indeed falling into the trap of reversing the vassal clause. I should add a warning somewhere!
If you are sure you did not submit to a new liege, post the turn before the event.

Thanks for your input.

Going back over my save files, during T26 I made an Alliance with Navarra. This showed as completed at the start of T27 and I had a message to this effect. I have now rerun several times T29 (from original save at the start of this turn) without making any mention of vasselisation. No matter, at the start of T30 I am now always a vassal of Navarra. I am not sure whether vassalisation takes place immediately or takes a turn or so to come into effect. Can you please confirm? In any event, I have never had an EOT message about vassalisation so a warning would be most useful.

If vassalisation takes more than 1 turn to come into effect, then it is still possible I may have accidentally taken the wrong vassalisation clause during either T27 or T28. During these turns the game always said I had an Alliance with Navarra. If vassalisation takes place at the end of the turn it is requested, then I have definitely not made any such request during T29.

You will find attached my save at the end of T29, rerun yesterday, that always results in my vassalisation at the EOT even though I have not made such a request during T29.

Hope this works:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bgtycgqr ... k7lan&dl=0

[Pocus]

Sorry, busy week.

The code halts on Navarra vassalizing you indeed, as part of a diplomatic clause.
All diplomacy takes 2 turns: one for the proposal to arrive and the target to respond; then, on the second turn, the originator receives the reply and, if accepted, the effect is applied.

[rob_tomcat]

Thanks for the information. It appears then that I must have inadvertently taken the wrong option and ended up a vassal of Navarra rather than the intended other way round.

Still, as requested above, an end of turn message about being vassalised would be useful when it happens to avoid confusion.

[Pocus]

Yes, I plan to add a warning!