Artillery in Battle Lines

ottomanmjm · Post by **ottomanmjm** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:41 am

If I have a BG of Light Artillery in a Battle Line between two BG's of Bow then to move the Battle Line I need to pass a CMT. If I fail the CMT can the two BGs of Bow move normally, leaving the Artillery behind?

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:57 am

No. You can't split up a battle line. If you rolled for the arty to move with the bow and you failed, all BGs attempting to move with the arty must remain in place. Also, the bow cannot make a "second move" with the general because the first attempt at moving was unsuccessful.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:09 am

You could get round this by putting the general with the Art and not attempting to move it as a battle line. Take the CMT for the Art on its own. Then the bow can move regardless of whether the CMT is passed.

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:44 am

gozerius wrote:No. You can't split up a battle line. If you rolled for the arty to move with the bow and you failed, all BGs attempting to move with the arty must remain in place. Also, the bow cannot make a "second move" with the general because the first attempt at moving was unsuccessful.

If you fail a complex move test, you can still do a simple one.

For artillery, any move at all is complex, so if they fail the test they can't then move. But for bowmen, they can still make a simple advance ...

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:46 pm

When moving a battle line, all BGs are restricted to the movement of the BG with the worst movement. Since a BG of light arty or battle wagons must pass a CMT to move at all, all BGs attempting to move with it as part of a battle line have the same restrictions as the LArty or BWagons. All battleline moves are limited to simple advances. If light arty or battle wagons are included, you must pass a CMT to make it.

ottomanmjm · Post by **ottomanmjm** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:51 pm

Polkovnik wrote:You could get round this by putting the general with the Art and not attempting to move it as a battle line. Take the CMT for the Art on its own. Then the bow can move regardless of whether the CMT is passed.

This is fine if you only want to move once, but you need the whole battle line if you want to move twice. It seems that you take the risk of not moving at all if you want to try and move twice.

I guess brigading the Art BG's together is the way to go and just let the archers make one move at a time.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:24 am

Is moving artillery really worth all that bother? Never used it myself but Blathergut tried it twice, didn't do anything. Out of 2 games it only got 1 shot off.

fatismo · Post by **fatismo** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:37 am

Like any troop, used in the right way with the right support it can be very effective, and annoying when your opponent shouts 'incomming' and makes whistling and explosions sounds evertime he rolls the dice for them.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:10 am

ottomanmjm wrote:
Polkovnik wrote:You could get round this by putting the general with the Art and not attempting to move it as a battle line. Take the CMT for the Art on its own. Then the bow can move regardless of whether the CMT is passed.
This is fine if you only want to move once, but you need the whole battle line if you want to move twice.

No, even if you want to move twice you're still better off just moving the Art on its own. If you move the battle line twice it will only move 4 MU anyway. The bow can move this distance as a single move. So you roll CMTs for the Art first and move it. Then you can choose what to do with the bow.

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:52 am

gozerius wrote:When moving a battle line, all BGs are restricted to the movement of the BG with the worst movement. Since a BG of light arty or battle wagons must pass a CMT to move at all, all BGs attempting to move with it as part of a battle line have the same restrictions as the LArty or BWagons. All battleline moves are limited to simple advances. If light arty or battle wagons are included, you must pass a CMT to make it.

Surely they are restricted to the movement distance of the slowest - not every single movement rule of the "worst" ?

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:37 pm

When moving a battle line, all BGs are restricted to the movement of the BG with the worst movement. Since a BG of light arty or battle wagons must pass a CMT to move at all, all BGs attempting to move with it as part of a battle line have the same restrictions as the LArty or BWagons. All battleline moves are limited to simple advances. If light arty or battle wagons are included, you must pass a CMT to make it.

I think that is an unduly harsh interpretation and one I would not support.

The bow could still move IMO.

gibby · Post by **gibby** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:26 pm

It does say "a mixed battle group or battle line tests using the worst applicable column in the simple and complex move table" page 43 and on page 41 it also says "light artillery and battle wagons(or a battle line including either of these) must pass a complex move test to carry out any move , whether simple or comples."

So surely that means if you declare it as a battle line and fail the test none of the battle line moves whether you support that version or not. Or am I missing something.

cheers
Jim

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:27 pm

IMO Jim is correct - not sure how you can read it otherwise.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:38 am

Like any troop, used in the right way with the right support it can be very effective, and annoying when your opponent shouts 'incomming' and makes whistling and explosions sounds evertime he rolls the dice for them.

With my Low Countries army, I use a battleline with 3 LArty BGs interspersed with 4 BGs of OSP. Led by an IC they can really move. The HW types provide rear support and that still gives me 2 more BGs of OSP to protect the flanks, with 2 BGs of skirmishers. Flanking the arty with deep blocks of OSp tends to discourage charges on the arty. Pretty hard to not contact the pointy sticks. If the enemy gets in charge range, the spears charge out and close ranks in the melee phase. Otherwise I bombard the enemy line until it starts to degrade, then move the spears forward, keeping the firing lanes clear until Impact. If only I could convince my opponents to stand still for this. Usually they run around to one flank or the other and my whole plan comes unglued. Arty supporting the main assault seems a better plan than brigading with more shooters. Arty with shooters is too much an inviting target for charges.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:39 am

gozerius wrote: Arty with shooters is too much an inviting target for charges.

But as long as they can't charge from outside shooting arc, they will take an awful lot of shooting on the way in. 2 dice from each arty base at 6MUs.
I've used 2 BGs of Art with a BG of 4 bow in between in my Imperial Roman army. The bow serves to widen the line as well as adding shooting dice. Even armoured infantry take a pounding on their way in, but the best target in enemy cataphracts.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:49 pm

And the Roman arty is drilled! Yikes.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:32 am

IMO Jim is correct - not sure how you can read it otherwise.

I stand corrected.

On re-reading you're quite right - does seem a bit harsh - but as someone else noted you're better off moving the BGs independently anyway.