Hussite???

AlanYork · Post by **AlanYork** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:08 pm

OK, I'm probably not going to build this army and I'm only asking this because after building my Wars of the Roses army I have a fair number of spare crossbowmen, polearm men and handgunners left over - the downside of multipacks. (I was going to use the crossbow to use the army as Warwick when he turned Lancastrian but I can't bring myself to do it!!!)

Anyway, looking at this small pile of lead I see the basis of a Hussite army here, I'd just need the wagons and Irregular Miniatures are here in York and they sell 'em. Oh, and a few cavalry but I already have some of those unpainted somewhere.

But....

Hussites just seem utterly useless; Line up the wagons in a static battleline across the table and the majority of your line will be ignored as the enemy concentrates in one place and overwhelms you. Try and attack and they need to pass CMTs left, right and centre and when they DO get close to the enemy, because they can't fire out of their front edge they have to mess about turning 90 degrees whilst presumably the foe is courteous enough to stand by and let them do it. Even then they don't have much firepower so they can be outshot and/or overwhelmed by infantry whilst the only thing they are good at; fighting cavalry, is pretty hard to bring about as the mounted troops just ride away. Even what seems to be the recommended BG size of 2 seems pretty dire, get unlucky on a death roll and lose the entire BG as when one dies it takes the other with it in auto break.

I know what I've written here must be wrong, there MUST be a way to use this army successfully, games can't be as one sided as I've described....but please lie to me, tell me I've hit the nail on the head and the best thing to do is put all that shiny spare lead back in its box, be satisfied I've just about completed my Yorkists and move away from the Spending Money Area.

Then again.....

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:36 pm

I can't imagine trying to win a tournament with Hussites. They are more than any other army too one dimensional. And immobile. Their historical success was based on the rashness of their opponents to charge their Wagenburg which was usually deployed on a steep hill. As you say, no tournament player will ever bother attempting to do this. Hussites are definitely a one trick pony, whose defining feature will be wasted in tournament play. The reason they were successful historically was their opponents HAD TO destroy them. They were a heretical movement that threatened two of the three estates, the Church and the aristocracy. The Holy Roman Emporer could not sit idly while his subjects rebelled against him and the Church. Unfortunately, no player will risk his tournament standing by behaving in the same way as the Anti-Hussite crusaders.
That being said, have you considered Danes or Swedes? Mixed BGs of polearmsmen and crossbowmen with a small BG of handgunners?

Hepius · Post by **Hepius** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:09 am

Gozerius hit it on the head. This army is a dog if you are thinking about tournament play.

I'm still painting one. It will look great and I'll use it for campaign games and friendly matches.

Andy1972 · Post by **Andy1972** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:27 am

I have enough battlewagons and gave it a try. Impact foot eats the battlewagons up and i lost 2 stands of a 4 stand group(in one impact!)and blew a huge hole in my line.... I had to take FF so i could put my BWG up 15".. With out that i would be 10" from the edge with no room for my reserves to move.. They need a rule that allows the Battlewagons to deploy 15" in.

Martin0112 · Post by **Martin0112** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:59 am

Nice thead.
I have a fully painted Hussite army AND I've played them on the last KomiCon 2 weeks ago
First, I want to say: Yes, the risks Andy is describing are there, and he is right with lots ofhis points.
BUT: I've learned during my games (btw, I won 2, I nearly drawed one, but unfortunatelly I got an army rout in the last game, which pushed my backfrom second place to 8th

), that this army has nearly nice effects.
Point 1: Your manoever-phase is very short, as you have a maximum of 7 units next to the BWgs, so it speeds up the game, and you have more time for drinking a beer or 2 next to the game
Point 2: Always have an IC avaiable to make sure your BWgs can move if you want (they will most likely not do, but it's worth a try)
Point 3: Try to make the terrain as hard as possible for your opponent. Use Villages or steep hills, so your BWgs can close several gaps between, and your opponent has to fight where YOU want him to fight.
Point 3: I had 2 BGs of Cav, 2 BGs of Knights and 2 BGs of Heavy Foot. As the BWgs are closing gaps for you and also giving you secure flanks, you can use these troops on a very small room. So the advantage of having me BGs of you enemy is worthless, as long as he did not have the room for using these.
Point 4: Don't forget that BWgs are counte as foot. The opponents Lancers for example HAVE to charge you, if they can unless the make a CMT. Nice effects
Point 5: I use 4 BG's of 2 BWgs. Even if the risk to loose them with bad luck in the death roll (don't forget that they are traeted like elephants, getting a +1 for each death roll), the risk is more on the opponents side.
Point 6: If you are trained in moviong the BWgs, you can start pushing a complete line towards the enemy (even if you have to test for each BG seperately, as you do not have battleline) Sure you cannot fire to the front, but if charged, you can FIGHT to the front as good as to the flanks
Point 7: Don't underestimate your opponents missing experience fighting BWgs

Finally, I really like playing them, as long as it's not your only goal to win a tournament

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:14 pm

Very interesting post, Martin0112. I have always been intrigued with the Hussites. They are historically fascinating and visually astonishing. It would seem they require a resolute and deliberate commander, which I am not. I am heartened that they do have some viablility though.

Would doing them in 25mm help them out? THAT would be an impressive army!

timmy1 · Post by **timmy1** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:14 pm

As the owner of a Swiss army, may I say how thrilled I am that more people wish to play Hussites... (also one of my favourite armies for very many reasons).

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:46 pm

I'm certain Hussites would look great in 25 mm. (I'm also sure buying a Kingmaker Hussite Army is an easy way to go broke.) I doubt though that they would work better in 25mm. Checking past 25 mm tournaments I get the impression the ratio of HF armies is higher in that scale, compared to 15 mm. Given that good Infantry is the one thing Hussites really need to fear...

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:53 am

Ghaznavid wrote:I'm certain Hussites would look great in 25 mm. (I'm also sure buying a Kingmaker Hussite Army is an easy way to go broke.) I doubt though that they would work better in 25mm. Checking past 25 mm tournaments I get the impression the ratio of HF armies is higher in that scale, compared to 15 mm. Given that good Infantry is the one thing Hussites really need to fear...

Damn . . .

Martin0112 · Post by **Martin0112** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:30 am

Yes, the biggest issue for Hussite are Pikes and Impact foot, next came Elephants, but they are not that bad as I thought.
All other Infantry, like spearmen, or heavy weapon as as good as the BWg's, and, if playing good, you will most likly have the overlaps.
But make sure you have enough generals around. As long as you do not loose the Melee, you can get 3 hits with no problem, so a general in front row is really important to get re-rolls if needed.

Skullzgrinda · Post by **Skullzgrinda** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:55 am

Martin, please post some Hussite AARs in the future should opportunity permit. Very interesting thread!

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:02 pm

You guys need some input from Roger Greenwood - he's used Hussites at a few competitions and done pretty well with them.

PM Rogerg to get his attention

AlanYork · Post by **AlanYork** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:54 am

Saved!!!! This army seems like a bit of a "dog" from what you say and as it's hard enough for me to win with reasonably strong armies I'd only get frustrated and regret the expense of buying all those wagons only to lose a lot of the time.

Well done guys, you saved me from myself!

Andy1972 · Post by **Andy1972** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:45 am

Just build a medieval army.. Play with it.. Then if you get a hair up your arse.. Buy the warwagons for fun. And try it.. I have yet to try using them in a Medieval German army, you could deploy them last to counter a cavalry flank ect.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:25 am

AlanYork wrote:Saved!!!! This army seems like a bit of a "dog" from what you say and as it's hard enough for me to win with reasonably strong armies I'd only get frustrated and regret the expense of buying all those wagons only to lose a lot of the time.

Well done guys, you saved me from myself!

As peter said contact Roger before you kill this army IIRC he took them to the Challange with 8 or 10 BG and played on the top tables all event.

he is the man that you can ask about Hussites.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:55 pm

I haven't used battle wagons in my Med German army yet either. I was thinking of setting a BG of them on either side of a line of armored DSp, with halbardiers giving rear support. (Minifigs does a nice line of Hussite Wars figs in 15mm. Love their war wagons. The mounted stuff is a little iffy, but the foot is nice.) An IC in the middle of the pack would make it pretty tough and give it a chance to move. You can do this with the Later Hungarians as well. Then you've got a mobile terrain piece and lots of maneuverable mounted to harass the enemy. Must try it soon. My biggest problem is finding other players with SoA or EE armies. I like to play non-anachronistic match-ups, but most people in my neck of the woods prefer the Classical Age armies.

AlanYork · Post by **AlanYork** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:28 pm

Andy1972 wrote:Just build a medieval army.. Play with it.. Then if you get a hair up your arse.. Buy the warwagons for fun. And try it.. I have yet to try using them in a Medieval German army, you could deploy them last to counter a cavalry flank ect.

Andy, I've already got a Medieval army, Wars of the Roses Yorkist

I have to ask this though; "a hair up my arse"....????? It must be an American expression that here in the Mother Country we don't use. Then again if you were American yourself I would expect you would to say "ass" not "arse" I suppose lol. Anyway what does that phrase mean please cos it sounds like something I could live without!!!!

Thanks mate.

Dareun · Post by **Dareun** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:52 pm

AlanYork wrote:
Andy1972 wrote:.. Play with it.. Then if you get a hair up your arse.. Buy the warwagons for fun.
I have to ask this though; "a hair up my arse"....????? It must be an American expression that here in the Mother Country we don't use. Then again if you were American yourself I would expect you would to say "ass" not "arse" I suppose lol. Anyway what does that phrase mean please cos it sounds like something I could live without!!!!

Thanks mate.

Well try to translate it by "if you got the guts" In french we have a close by expression that sounds funny when you translate it that got the same meaning: "si tu as des couilles au cul"; something about balls

Andy1972 · Post by **Andy1972** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:31 am

Yes, hair up your ass, is the phrase.. Where it comes from... i dunno.. Just like s**ts and giggles.

I thought arse sounded nicer..

kps70 · Post by **kps70** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:39 pm

Great thread guys. I am about a third of the way through painting a 1000 point FoG Hussite army. I don't play to win but to have fun so the negative comments have not put me off.
I have planned to max out on the light artillery wagons and to include two heavy artillery pieces as well!
Cannot wait to see what the whole army looks like on the table.
Definitely having an IC with an uncertain number of TC's. Don't want to spend too many points on these though as it reduces my number of potential wagons!!!!
I'd love to hear about tactics for playing with the army. What about a sporadic deployment with gaps for the punchy foot and knights to crash through?