heavy infantry as support vs infantry?

[FrancoisPhilidor]

Not sure if it wouldn't unbalance the game, because it is already perfectly balanced, but I was thinking how AT guns provide support against vehicles, so how about if heavy infantry placed adjacent to other units provides a bit mg support against attacking infantry?

[FrancoisPhilidor]

Maybe some light AA guns that don't have an anti tank mode could get this anti infantry mg support mode too. I find them to be a bit useless sometimes, considering they cost 2 supply points

[StuccoFresco]

It's not possible: infantry class units can't get targeted by support fire. Unless there's a way to code that into the game, it's not possible by using the base game's mechanics.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

It's not possible: infantry class units can't get targeted by support fire. Unless there's a way to code that into the game, it's not possible by using the base game's mechanics.

Should be something easily done though?
If one knew where to find it.
It seems for Anti tank support, the only thing the game checks is:
1. enemy mechanical unit attacking friendly (any type) unit
2. friendly anti tank category unit placed next to friendly attacked unit
3. play anti tank shot animation, include anti tank damage in attacked unit's damage

works the same for fighter planes?


I guess one would just have to give the anti air category this ability too, just like the fighter category and anti tank category.
For heavy infantry maybe not, because one would have to create another category for it.


If you tried to do it for artillery, probably the problem was that you weren't able to assign any animation for that kind of situation?
Although I don't even think artillery should have this ability. It's strong enough when it attacks on its own turn.
But the anti air guns are pretty useless for most of the game, unless they are in the right place at the right time. Plus I don't like how you can easily breach a fortified position with infantry alone, when tanks can't do it due to AT guns

Just my thoughts

[Erik2]

I would like to see artillery in a supportive role siilar to AT/AA units. This was the case in the old Panzer General game. Supporting artillery should lose efficiency depending on the number of supportive barrages it made during an enemy attack.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

Really? To me it doesn't make sense. An artillery barrage is sth slow and heavy that needs to be planned in advance. AT guns or machine guns are ready and literally waiting for an enemy to show up

[JoaoLuisAngelo]

I remember reading the following somewhere, somewhen. It is paraphrased as I'm not sure of the actual quote.

During WWII if you suspect that the enemy is at a position and fire a few shots at it:
... if they come out waving white pieces of cloth, they are Italian (or French?);
... if they fire back a burst of machine-gun fire, they are German;
... if they fire back a well-aimed volley of rifle fire, they are British (including all the Commonwealth);
... if nothing seems to happen for a while but you find yourself under accurate artillery fire, they are American.

That last bit... I'm happy with how OoB handles supporting fire. I think it's a legal thing where they have to have some differences re Panzer Corps. I wouldn't mind seeing artillery supporting infantry as a US-specific specialization that you would have to buy.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

I remember reading the following somewhere, somewhen. It is paraphrased as I'm not sure of the actual quote.

During WWII if you suspect that the enemy is at a position and fire a few shots at it:
... if they come out waving white pieces of cloth, they are Italian (or French?);
... if they fire back a burst of machine-gun fire, they are German;
... if they fire back a well-aimed volley of rifle fire, they are British (including all the Commonwealth);
... if nothing seems to happen for a while but you find yourself under accurate artillery fire, they are American.

That last bit... I'm happy with how OoB handles supporting fire. I think it's a legal thing where they have to have some differences re Panzer Corps. I wouldn't mind seeing artillery supporting infantry as a US-specific specialization that you would have to buy.

I know that saying from somewhere too.
But you mentioned yourself: "nothing happens for a while... " It shows that artillery fire takes time to call, unlike machine guns or AT guns that often have no other job but to shoot at things that move towards them. And you can call in your artillery fire, but later, when it is your own turn again. I think order of battle got this time frame right (what happens immediately, and what happens only on your turn)

By the way, it wouldn't be a legal issue if you copy game mechanic ideas. In law they say in such situations "anybody could have invented that. You don't have a monopoly on simple ideas". You cannot copy names, logos, complex innovations (technology) and stuff like that. But game rules, yeah

[Erik2]

Artillery may have pre-planned target areas. That could be used for support fire. But I really like the idea of adding fire support as a specialisation for certain factions.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

Artillery may have pre-planned target areas. That could be used for support fire. But I really like the idea of adding fire support as a specialisation for certain factions.

Yeah maybe. Is there still any chance the developers will add sth? I'm starting to think truck movement vs foot movement needs some rework. The distances are too similar considering the added risk

[Erik2]

The devs have not been present on the forum in a very long time. I do not think that OOB will get an update, but I'm hoping for a new version maybe including WW1 - Korea - Viet Nam. There's still potential in the game system.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

The devs have not been present on the forum in a very long time. I do not think that OOB will get an update, but I'm hoping for a new version maybe including WW1 - Korea - Viet Nam. There's still potential in the game system.

Yeah. Maybe a supply system where supply can only travel on roads

[StuccoFresco]

It's not possible: infantry class units can't get targeted by support fire. Unless there's a way to code that into the game, it's not possible by using the base game's mechanics.

Should be something easily done though?
If one knew where to find it.
It seems for Anti tank support, the only thing the game checks is:
1. enemy mechanical unit attacking friendly (any type) unit
2. friendly anti tank category unit placed next to friendly attacked unit
3. play anti tank shot animation, include anti tank damage in attacked unit's damage

works the same for fighter planes?


I guess one would just have to give the anti air category this ability too, just like the fighter category and anti tank category.
For heavy infantry maybe not, because one would have to create another category for it.


If you tried to do it for artillery, probably the problem was that you weren't able to assign any animation for that kind of situation?
Although I don't even think artillery should have this ability. It's strong enough when it attacks on its own turn.
But the anti air guns are pretty useless for most of the game, unless they are in the right place at the right time. Plus I don't like how you can easily breach a fortified position with infantry alone, when tanks can't do it due to AT guns

Just my thoughts

AT and AA fire have game mechanics set up for it, Artillery has not.

[cutydt02]

i think we should have Anti-infantry fire support, but restrict it to short range artillery only. Arty in this game is already OP, but only for medium range or longer one, else the mobile one. I rather use 2-speed cheap one rather than 75mm or 105mm, which is significantly more expensive and not so effective.

Heavy infantry is already a tough unit in game, they can deal with even tank much more easier. We already have mortar mode for them, which can be ultilized to be kind of short range artillery mode, with decrease in defense.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

i think we should have Anti-infantry fire support, but restrict it to short range artillery only. Arty in this game is already OP, but only for medium range or longer one, else the mobile one. I rather use 2-speed cheap one rather than 75mm or 105mm, which is significantly more expensive and not so effective.

Heavy infantry is already a tough unit in game, they can deal with even tank much more easier. We already have mortar mode for them, which can be ultilized to be kind of short range artillery mode, with decrease in defense.

I have been looking at the data folder a bit lately, and it seems there is a trait called AT support. This seems to be the key to all these support fire features.

If I simply write this trait to e.g. mortar infantry, it should be able to do the same thing as AT guns.

But there are two more things I'm concerned about:
1. If you add a new feature to a unit but there is no animation, games normally crash. I don't know where to add animations. We wouldn't have to make a new one; we could just assign the existing mortar animation.

2. We would need to find where valid targets are assigned to each ability. How to make it that AT support targets not just vehicles but also infantry?

AT support can target scout cars as well, right? Although they are in the scout category. And it doesn't target scout planes. So there is a lot of flexibility.

It should be quite easy if we can find it. I mean, look at abilities like AT support for adjacent AT guns. It's just a simple switch that enables or disables certain targets.

[StuccoFresco]

I tried to do that, it doesn't work unless you set every infantry as "mechanized", I think it's the "defense trait" that defines if a unit gets targeted by AT guns. This however would make actual AT guns fire at infantry as well, and if you set infantry as "mechanized" in defense it means they would never be targeted by soft attacks, which would make the entire system a mess.

You'd need to make a completely new trait with completely different rules, which can't be done through the easily accessible files. I've tried it, extensively, it's not possible with the txt or csv files.

[FrancoisPhilidor]

I tried to do that, it doesn't work unless you set every infantry as "mechanized", I think it's the "defense trait" that defines if a unit gets targeted by AT guns. This however would make actual AT guns fire at infantry as well, and if you set infantry as "mechanized" in defense it means they would never be targeted by soft attacks, which would make the entire system a mess.

You'd need to make a completely new trait with completely different rules, which can't be done through the easily accessible files. I've tried it, extensively, it's not possible with the txt or csv files.

Hmm ok, thanks for the info.