Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[tortiator]

thanks Cuba for the answer and again after 10 years still supporting this mod is really a big thing.

[caesar67]

Playing now in January 1943. Two things that are perhaps not historical correct: I can not upgrade to Tiger tank. Serial production started historical in october 1942. So I should upgrade.
Second: If I upgrade a strength 12 Pz III to Pz IV I get a strength 10 tank. Why this?
Thanks!!

[McGuba]

I can not upgrade to Tiger tank. Serial production started historical in october 1942. So I should upgrade.

It appears that the serial production of the Tiger I had started even earlier, in August 1942. But only 8 such tanks were produced in that month, followed by only 3 in September and 10 in October. In total, only 76 were produced by the end of 1942. Initial production remained rather small in the first half of 1943 with 35 in January and reaching 50 in May.

Since in this mod a full (10) strength tank unit represents about 200 actual tanks only an under strength Tiger I tank unit appears as a "gift" unit near the end of 1942. Which can reach full strength only in May 1943, after the first 200 examples had been historically produced. (Still excluding any potential losses by that time.) And then it becomes available for purchase as well a couple turns later, when the historical rate of production had started to reach a reasonable level. But it is not really recommended to purchase any of these beyond the gifted unit due to its very high price. Also, historically there were hardly ever much more than 200 serviceable Tiger I tanks available at any given time due to continuous losses.

Second: If I upgrade a strength 12 Pz III to Pz IV I get a strength 10 tank. Why this?

As far as I remember it is a vanilla game feature. If an over strength unit gets an upgrade, it loses the extra strength points over 10. However, it may only affect non-family upgrades, like Pz.III to Pz.IV, I am not so sure about that right now. Perhaps more experienced players can confirm it.

[caesar67]

Thanks a lot for your detailed answer! Byd the way: Is there an upgrade of your mod in the pipeline?

[cw58]

Second: If I upgrade a strength 12 Pz III to Pz IV I get a strength 10 tank. Why this?

As far as I remember it is a vanilla game feature. If an over strength unit gets an upgrade, it loses the extra strength points over 10. However, it may only affect non-family upgrades, like Pz.III to Pz.IV, I am not so sure about that right now. Perhaps more experienced players can confirm it.

It is a feature that can be modded in the gamerules file.

overstrength.jpg (109.87 KiB) Viewed 3177 times

[caesar67]

Second: If I upgrade a strength 12 Pz III to Pz IV I get a strength 10 tank. Why this?

As far as I remember it is a vanilla game feature. If an over strength unit gets an upgrade, it loses the extra strength points over 10. However, it may only affect non-family upgrades, like Pz.III to Pz.IV, I am not so sure about that right now. Perhaps more experienced players can confirm it.

It is a feature that can be modded in the gamerules file.
overstrength.jpg

Where exactly can I find this file?

[cw58]

As far as I remember it is a vanilla game feature. If an over strength unit gets an upgrade, it loses the extra strength points over 10. However, it may only affect non-family upgrades, like Pz.III to Pz.IV, I am not so sure about that right now. Perhaps more experienced players can confirm it.

It is a feature that can be modded in the gamerules file.
overstrength.jpg

Where exactly can I find this file?

The "gamerules" file is located in the Panzer Corps/Data folder. Edit "gamerules" file if you're using 1.20 rules. Edit "gamerules1.14" if you're using the older rules.

[caesar67]

It is a feature that can be modded in the gamerules file.
overstrength.jpg

Where exactly can I find this file?

The "gamerules" file is located in the Panzer Corps/Data folder. Edit "gamerules" file if you're using 1.20 rules. Edit "gamerules1.14" if you're using the older rules.

Thanks a lot! Please tell me also what it means with gamerules 1.14 and 1.20. It Is my first game with this mod

[McGuba]

Yes, so I have just quickly tested again and it is as I remembered: if an over strength unit is upgraded in family, like for example a Pz.IIIF is upgraded to Pz.IIIJ, it can retain its over strength points, but if it is upgraded to a different family like to a Pz.IV it loses any strength points over 10. And it is of course a vanilla game feature, that's how it is by default and I did not touch it in this mod. I am not sure what's the point of this, you should ask the developers of Panzer Corps. My guess would be that it was like that in Panzer General as well and they just left it like that. But yes, you should be able to edit it in the gamerules file.

Other than that, I does not really have a huge effect on gameplay I think, I might as well edit it for the next version, too. As it looks like it only confuses some players.

As for old 1.4 and "new" 2.0 rules here is a topic:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68118

This mod normally uses the "new" rules and that's the recommended one. However, I did edit a few thing in both old and new gamerules, this is from "Changes" section of the the in-game Library of the BE mod:

Game rule changes

Since much of the campaign takes place in the same scenario (Barbarossa and beyond) and thus the player cannot benefit from the cheaper replacements and extra prestige awarded in between the scenarios I made a few important changes for gameplay reasons:

- experience of green replacements is now 50 instead of 30 to make the cheapest green replacement less painful when the player is low in prestige points (which will likely happen quite often)

- elite replacements cost 75% of the full price instead of 100%

- capturing victory objectives now adds 150 prestige instead of 100 (except for the victory objectives in the Middle East, which typically add only 50)

- capturing the following key objectives will generate a one-time extra prestige bonus as a reward: Moscow, Leningrad, the Caucasus, Stalingrad, Malta, North Africa & Middle East and the Axis side also gets a reward for the surrender of the Soviet Union and Great Britain

- first random hero can appear after 30 kills instead of 50

- prestige soft cap is not used - due to expensive core naval ships messing up the soft cap

But there are a few other changes so this section of the Library should be read by every player.

[caesar67]

AAR (autumn 1943):

It is my first game with this mod and I want to tell you, what my experiences are so far.
I play 'normal' a hold a frontline in east from Riga to Smolensk – Kursk – Charkow – Rostow.
It is not to hard to defend the Russians because my troops are digged in and in the south I have my best tanks to defend my line. I have seven fighter in the east and that is ok.
Unfortunately I had to evade my Afrika Korps after a few turns, because I see no chance to fight against allied troops in Afrika. So I decided to send them to Italy.
Now, allied forces are landed there and their ships and airforce are blowing my troops to hell.
In France I have 7 fighter too ad that is very hard to manage.
All in all: a very challenging mod! I love it

Perhaps some things to mention/change:

Isn't there '43-Infanterie available?
Panzergrenadiere should have get better values (hard attack/defend), because they had
a tank bataillon in the division in opposite to motorised infantry).
For better visibilty of the elite tanks it would be nice to have always two colours of each tank in the production menu. So I can give my elite tanks a different colour...
Upgrade-function in homeland is very, very difficulty. I have no troops in Russia in 1941 and later to replace the units I want to upgrade at home. That is a problem, so I have in 1943 3,7cm anti tank and tank II at the front...So it would be better I can build some units in 1941 and give the players a little bit more money
Don't know how to capture the Russian oilfields in Baku....for that I would need 20 units more.... So perhaps a malus is not correct if you don't can hold the oilfields.

[McGuba]

It is my first game with this mod and I want to tell you, what my experiences are so far.

Thanks for you feedback! It is always very interesting and useful for the further improvement of the mod to read such reports by first time players.

Isn't there '43-Infanterie available?

No, as far as I know, there was not much of a difference between the personal equipment of a 1941 and a 1943 German infantry squad. The advanced man portable anti-tank weapons like the Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust were only introduced in late 1943 in relatively small numbers. They only became widely used in 1944 along with the Sturmgewehr 44. So currently there is only a German '44 Infanterie in the mod.

Panzergrenadiere should have get better values (hard attack/defend), because they had
a tank bataillon in the division in opposite to motorised infantry).

Panzergrenadiers have slightly better initiative and hard attack values than regular infantry units. Perhaps they could be even better.

Upgrade-function in homeland is very, very difficulty. I have no troops in Russia in 1941 and later to replace the units I want to upgrade at home. That is a problem, so I have in 1943 3,7cm anti tank and tank II at the front...So it would be better I can build some units in 1941 and give the players a little bit more money
Don't know how to capture the Russian oilfields in Baku....for that I would need 20 units more.... So perhaps a malus is not correct if you don't can hold the oilfields.

Yes, it is indeed a difficult mod, difficult to play and difficult to win. It looks like most players need several attempts to achieve a victory. Especially if played on the higher difficulty settings. But that's how its meant to be. After all Germany lost the war as well even though it probably had the most effective army in 1941. But the Allies had a lot more tanks and aircraft and soldiers and resources. For those who just want to have "fun" there is always the easier "moderate" version of the mod and they can always reduce the difficulty as well.

Obsolete tanks and anti-tank guns should be sent home for upgrade. If not, these will be easy prey for late war Allied units.

[caesar67]

Obsolete tanks and anti-tank guns should be sent home for upgrade. If not, these will be easy prey for late war Allied units.
[/quote]
Thank you for answering! I'm fine with your explanations, apart from the last point. When you reach your frontline in 1942 historically, you will hardly have the chance to put older units back to Germany because you have no reserves to take their place in the frontline.
I only could upgrade six units in winter 1941 and four elite tanks in 1942. After this time Russian pressure is too high to send back troops. So the upgrated units in 1941 are also too weak in 1943.

[Locarnus]

Obsolete tanks and anti-tank guns should be sent home for upgrade. If not, these will be easy prey for late war Allied units.

Thank you for answering! I'm fine with your explanations, apart from the last point. When you reach your frontline in 1942 historically, you will hardly have the chance to put older units back to Germany because you have no reserves to take their place in the frontline.
I only could upgrade six units in winter 1941 and four elite tanks in 1942. After this time Russian pressure is too high to send back troops. So the upgrated units in 1941 are also too weak in 1943.

PzC game mechanics are all about priorities, which usually simply but crucially means "the order in which things are done".
The "right order" is imho even more important in Battlefield Europe.
Can be the order of tactical decisions, like "surrounding" an enemy fighter before firing at it - for the mass attack initiative bonus. Or simply doing recon first, before moving all the other pieces on the board.
Or the order of strategic attention, like first dealing with the critical theaters before then finishing with the easier ones.
Unoptimized priorities and "orders" make the game much harder - though also much more entertaining, judging from the multiplayer youtube match between Duedman and HerzogSieg.

Long story short, the "shuffling units around for upgrades" probably just needs to be higher in your priorities.
Before I was more familiar with the timings of unit upgrade options and game events, it helped me to treat the upgrades like a "housekeeping chore", which needs to be done early in every turn.
Eg 1-2 units being sent back for upgrades, 1-2 units upgrading, 1-2 units being sent back to the front, plus newly gifted units of course.
Every single turn, from Januar 1942 onwards.

1941 is a special case due to the lack of already accumulated upgrade options for ground units.
But for 1941, experienced players try to have nearly all of those 3.7cm Pak units in a german upgrade city on 1st October, ready to be upgraded to the 5cm Pak.

[McGuba]

Thank you for answering! I'm fine with your explanations, apart from the last point. When you reach your frontline in 1942 historically, you will hardly have the chance to put older units back to Germany because you have no reserves to take their place in the frontline.
I only could upgrade six units in winter 1941 and four elite tanks in 1942. After this time Russian pressure is too high to send back troops. So the upgrated units in 1941 are also too weak in 1943.

As written above, at least 1-2 units should always be in the process of being upgraded. Especially towed AT guns and tank units. Obviously, always train transport has to be used for this to speed it up. I think these two are the most important to get constant upgrades. 3.7 cm Pak guns ideally to 5 cm first or directly to 7.5 cm. These are relatively cheap upgrades if staying in-family, which is highly recommended. Also starter Pz.III tanks to long barrel Pz.IIIs and then to Panthers. These are also in-family upgrades. Obsolete Pz.I, Pz.II and Czech tanks to Pz.III or Pz.IV, when prestige allows it as that's more costly. Some of these can get a scripted cross-class upgrade to a Marder which is more prestige friendly.

In general, you should always be able to move just 1-2 tank or towed AT gun unit to the back at a time for an upgrade as there are several more in the frontline. Ideally always the most obsolete one(s) should be sent back and then upgraded to the latest type. And then after the upgrade it can be sent to the main area of attack or in the case of the AT guns perhaps to the most dangerous defense line.

But of course I can feel you pain as it is indeed sometimes hard to send back even just one tank unit but if you leave an obsolete unit in the frontline it will be lost for nothing. Whereas if upgraded to the latest type it can be much more effective in its role and can jump to the front to lead the main attack. That's quite a difference.

This is all historically accurate as units were regularly sent back to the hinterland to reform, rest and get trained for new equipment. No unit spent the entire war at the frontline.

Nevertheless, if you are looking for a more forgiving experience I still suggest you to try the easier "Moderate" version of the mod in which units can be upgraded in any friendly city, same as in vanilla Panzer Corps. It is also easier as there are significantly less counter-attacking Allied units in that version.

[caesar67]

I was wondering if this mod is available to play? It looks excellent

Sorry, not yet, as of today. I am still testing it, and do not like to release untested, unfinished material. I am not completly satisfied with the AI behaviour at the moment. Probably I never will. I am still experimenting with a few things, but once done I will release it for sure.

Thank you both for your suggestions, that will help a lot! How do you both use replacement? Elite replacement just for elite troops or all tanks too?

[PeteMitchell]

I just do the tank upgrades in winter. Not worth using them in winter anyhow

[98sb715]

Having to use trains to transport the units back to Germany or elsewhere for upgrades makes sense for historical accuracy, and I like that aspect of the mod.

I played through it on an easier difficulty the first time, and it would be helpful if Moscow was an upgrade city like Tobruk or other cities are. The rail lines get long if you advance far enough east

[McGuba]

How do you both use replacement? Elite replacement just for elite troops or all tanks too?

I try not to overuse elite replacements even though I know that it is hard to resist doing so sometimes. But in general I think it is more important to have enough prestige for unit upgrades and for purchasing new units than giving elite replacements. So usually I just have a few elite tank and fighter units, usually the ones with heroes, and try to keep their 2 stars if possible. Then I try to use these to make the first hit against the more dangerous enemy units. And the rest of the army just usually slowly degrades due to green replacements following losses. It may not be the best strategy though, there are better players than me out there...

I played through it on an easier difficulty the first time, and it would be helpful if Moscow was an upgrade city like Tobruk or other cities are. The rail lines get long if you advance far enough east

Sure, but the farther the Axis forces advance to the east, the harder it should be, shouldn't it? And not only the distances are longer but also the frontline gets longer as well thanks to the peculiar geography of Russia.

Tobruk is a special case, I wanted to make it worth fighting for, otherwise players would just simply bypass it, which would be quite unhistorical. It is especially important in multiplayer games when both sides need it badly as that's the only upgrade city in North Africa and the Middle East apart from Tripoli, which is quite far from the main action. Here Alexandria would be a potential additional candidate but that in turn would make the job of the Allied player much easier as it was in some earlier versions of the mod.

[98sb715]

[/quote]

Sure, but the farther the Axis forces advance to the east, the harder it should be, shouldn't it? And not only the distances are longer but also the frontline gets longer as well thanks to the peculiar geography of Russia.

Tobruk is a special case, I wanted to make it worth fighting for, otherwise players would just simply bypass it, which would be quite unhistorical. It is especially important in multiplayer games when both sides need it badly as that's the only upgrade city in North Africa and the Middle East apart from Tripoli, which is quite far from the main action. Here Alexandria would be a potential additional candidate but that in turn would make the job of the Allied player much easier as it was in some earlier versions of the mod.
[/quote]

Isn't there another upgrade city in the Middle East? I forget what it is. Maybe Haifa or Tel Aviv. I just remember it after moving past Egypt/Sinai.

[bondjamesbond]

Pz.Kpfw IV Ausf.G on railroad platforms at the Nibelungenwerke before being shipped to the troops. Until the end of the war, 4,800 of the 8,500 former Wehrmacht “fours” were produced here.Pz.Kpfw IV Ausf.G on railroad platforms at the Nibelungenwerke before being shipped to the troops. Until the end of the war, 4,800 of the 8,500 former Wehrmacht “fours” were produced here.
https://pikabu.ru/story/proizvodstvo_ne ... yi_6182553

https://русскоедвижение.рф/index.php/hi ... 6-07-25-13

In addition, the Nazis use a considerable amount of armaments captured by them in their time in occupied countries.

After the surrender of France, the Germans captured a large number of tanks and artillery and small arms. The largest tank factories Renault, Gochkis, Somois and artillery armament factories, of which Schneider-Creso is the largest, were also located in the occupied territory.

All these factories were rebuilt and at the beginning of 1941 had already begun production for the German army. In particular, the Renault and Somois tank factories produced tanks of the most modern designs: light tanks R-35 and Gochkis; medium tanks - Somois and heavy tanks - Renault B.


Polish tank factories (Ursus and the tank factory in Warsaw) are currently overhauling German tanks that were hit on the Eastern Front.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
https://paul-atrydes.livejournal.com/24180.html

https://tagil-press.ru/publications/374 ... nii-i-sssr

https://warspot.ru/4492-velikaya-oteche ... yh-zavodov


https://vk.com/wall-27569095_1309179



https://realt.onliner.by/2015/01/13/underground


Comrades I understand you correctly now that to replace their equipment for a newer year it is necessary to send it to Germany, and not to the nearest city important city ?

Also, I wonder if I don't attack the USSR but make a buffer zone in Poland and Romania for example, will the Soviet hordes come to Berlin led by the evil AI ))))) Or the war with the USSR will start anyway even if I don't cross the Soviet border anywhere ? )