Community Petition to Invest in a Field of Glory III Napoleonic / Renaissance / GNW

[Asterix_von_TWC]

Something I have brought up countless times but has always been rebuked, as it brings fear from a business perspective the era being unpopular, but knowing first hand the history of video games (I am 46 and have games since I was 12-14 beginning with Nobunaga's Ambition and Romance of Three Kingdoms in eras which were not popular yet those games managed to sell by the bucketload)

The truth remains:

1) Field of Glory is far from done, we all play in and love it tremendously
2) The mechanisms are brilliant for a Napoleonic or Age of Powder upgrade
3) A campaign mechanism together with AGEOD would be perfect for it, so that flanking maneuver and the Corps system could produce full impact.
4) Yes, maps would need to be bigger, and mechanisms would need to have further sophistication, but honestly, in some ways, current FoG plays more like Napoleonic than it should (medieval units were not so well organized for the types of flanking maneuvers and tactics we deploy in tournaments)

You don't have to agree with all I say, but please undersign below, preferably with a fine piece of Napoleonic Art if you think this is a good idea. Salut, salva, salud, cheers and grusse friends!

[Karvon]

RBS has already ruled out Napoleonics using the FOG2 engine as he, and others, feel it isn't suitable for various reasons.

Several years ago, someone did make a Napoleonics mod for FOG2, but the creator has disappeared, and it's no longer compatible with the current version of the game. I suppose if one was comfortable with scripting/coding, they could probably poke around in that mod and figure out how to update it.

HTTPS://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 68#p704968

Regards,

Karvon

[Athos1660]

I think both Richard and Slitherine already know the fans of the FoG2 series dream of a sequel post-1500, given the number of posts about it on these forums, on Steam, on Twitch...

[Asterix_von_TWC]

RBS has already ruled out Napoleonics using the FOG2 engine as he, and others, feel it isn't suitable for various reasons.

Several years ago, someone did make a Napoleonics mod for FOG2, but the creator has disappeared, and it's no longer compatible with the current version of the game. I suppose if one was comfortable with scripting/coding, they could probably poke around in that mod and figure out how to update it.

HTTPS://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 68#p704968

Regards,

Karvon

I am aware! But we need core support here

I think both Richard and Slitherine already know the fans of the FoG2 series dream of a sequel post-1500, given the number of posts about it on these forums, on Steam, on Twitch...

Yes I know, so taking a Viet Cong approach!

[SimonLancaster]

I am a big Napoleonic fan. My favourite period for wargaming. Next game won’t be Napoleonic. I think a lot would need to be changed in FoG 4 for a game that is set in the Napoleonic period. At least we have a ruleset although produced by someone else.

PS My bet is on Renaissance next which would be nice if it happens..

[Ironclad]

My personal preference would be a new computer ACW tactical battle game - sprites and/or counters and turn based. I know there is little chance of that given the number of simultaneous play semi-role playing or dynamic action versions out there covering the period. Added to which the continuing popularity, especially in the States, of the now venerable Tiller series sucks the oxygen out of the likelihood of any any such venture.

A Napoleonic FOG would be nice to see and one I would support but likewise I can't see it happening for the reasons already stated in this thread.

[SnuggleBunnies]

It's a bit late for a petition; the next game has been in development for some time. We just don't know what it is yet.

[Athos1660]

So we don't need a petition, but a fortune teller :

[Athos1660]

And if I get it right, the fortune teller hesitates between Medieval Asia, Renaissance and the chef's surprise. No fantasy, no sci-fi, no walking dead or so, according to her, right ?

[Dux Limitis]

You don't need a petition, because you clearly don't know how this thing works.

Firstly, FoG Napoleonic already had a TT rulebook but a completely different developer wrote it aside from the Ancient-Renaissance, and the Slitherine doesn't seem to hold the intellectual property of it.

Secondly, because of the limits of the Archon Engine(which FoG II is currently using), we won't even see the Renaissance, no need to mention the Napoleonic.

Plus, there are already plenty of Napoleonic wargames, I don't like to see this theme occupy the precious development resources of Ancient-Medieval, there was already a planned update for Medieval which has been delayed for months.

[SimonLancaster]

You don't need a petition, because you clearly don't know how this thing works.

Firstly, FoG Napoleonic already had a TT rulebook but a completely different developer wrote it aside from the Ancient-Renaissance, and the Slitherine doesn't seem to hold the intellectual property of it.

Secondly, because of the limits of the Archon Engine(which FoG II is currently using), we won't even see the Renaissance, no need to mention the Napoleonic.

Plus, there are already plenty of Napoleonic wargames, I don't like to see this theme occupy the precious development resources of Ancient-Medieval, there was already a planned update for Medieval which has been delayed for months.

If you discount Renaissance what is your best guess for next game?

[Dux Limitis]

You don't need a petition, because you clearly don't know how this thing works.

Firstly, FoG Napoleonic already had a TT rulebook but a completely different developer wrote it aside from the Ancient-Renaissance, and the Slitherine doesn't seem to hold the intellectual property of it.

Secondly, because of the limits of the Archon Engine(which FoG II is currently using), we won't even see the Renaissance, no need to mention the Napoleonic.

Plus, there are already plenty of Napoleonic wargames, I don't like to see this theme occupy the precious development resources of Ancient-Medieval, there was already a planned update for Medieval which has been delayed for months.

If you discount Renaissance what is your best guess for next game?

I don't really know and I don't rule out, but I remember Mr.Paul Adaway once said the Archon Engine doesn't allow over 16 models in a single unit and doesn't allow more difficult formations either, so he thinks the Renaissance might not be possible.

If the Byzantine Games still using the Archon Engine to develop the next FoG(my guess is based on this), Oriental might be the best guess.

Archon is a bad engine to me though, too many limits, graphics are far from mediocre, and it's also pretty poorly optimized for the large number of models.

[SimonLancaster]

Archon is a fantastic step up from FoG I. I give the team a lot of credit for that.

[Paul59]

I don't really know and I don't rule out, but I remember Mr.Paul Adaway once said the Archon Engine doesn't allow over 16 models in a single unit and doesn't allow more difficult formations either, so he thinks the Renaissance might not be possible.

Let me clarify my thoughts here. If you want a Renaissance game with the same figure scale as FOG2, then it isn't really possible with the Archon engine due to the 16 model limit and the more elaborate formations used in the 15th/17th century.

Of course, there is no reason why a Renaissance game could not be developed with a different engine (Unity for example, or even an upgraded Archon). They aren't condemned to using Archon for all eternity! It would just take longer to develop the game as there would be a lot to learn!

If, however, they just wanted to update Pike and Shot with it's block models, then Archon would be more than adequate.

[Paul59]

Speaking of a Napoleonic game though, some of you might find Combat Directive: Napoleonic Wars interesting:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3096 ... onic_Wars/

Unfortunately, it's "Real Time", not turn based, despite the hexes. But I convinced them to add a Very Slow game speed, which makes it quite a nice little game. Normally, I absolutely hate real time games, even WEGO makes me vomit, but this is quite a charming little game.

The Pros;

It has over 100 scenarios so far.

Some of the campaigns covered are very exotic (Finnish war of 1808 and Russo Turkish campaign of 1809!)

The mechanics are quite simple, but all the basics of the period are here; formation changes, unit quality, morale, terrain effects etc.

Battles can be a lot of fun as fortunes swing back and forth as objectives change hands and reinforcements arrive.

The graphics are quite charming.

The developers have put a bit of effort into getting the uniforms/flags correct.

More campaigns and improvements are promised.


Against:

It is very Russian focused at the moment. All the campaigns feature the Russians as one of the main protagonists. Every scenario is introduced by two Russian officers from a very Russian perspective.

Because of the way the real time is implemented the size of force a player can control is very limited, anything over about 8 units gets difficult. So the scenarios are all Brigade/Division sized.

The scenario intros I mentioned above are badly translated, which can add to the charm sometimes!

It's real time.

[Dux Limitis]

I don't really know and I don't rule out, but I remember Mr.Paul Adaway once said the Archon Engine doesn't allow over 16 models in a single unit and doesn't allow more difficult formations either, so he thinks the Renaissance might not be possible.

Of course, there is no reason why a Renaissance game could not be developed with a different engine (Unity for example, or even an upgraded Archon). They aren't condemned to using Archon for all eternity! It would just take longer to develop the game as there would be a lot to learn!

If, however, they just wanted to update Pike and Shot with it's block models, then Archon would be more than adequate.

I highly doubt the Slitherine will upgrade the Archon Engine, as if they want to, the Kingdom will not be based on the old one. And, the new engine takes time to learn, especially since many already existing assets based on the Archon Engine won't able to be re-used, which takes more time.

I don't think the last will happen, as the development of P&S was related to another already disbanded studio. Also, the P&S is based on another engine, it's not based on the Archon.

[Athos1660]

Speaking of a Napoleonic game though (...)

And for those not afraid of dice rolling and table checking, Vae Victis magazine makes accessible tactical boardgames about the Napoleon's battles (among other things). The Vassal Engine on PC/Mac allows to legally test them, play them on screen and play multiplayer by exchanging files. The rules are often simpler than say GMT Games. Rules in English on the site.

I don't think the last will happen, as the development of P&S was related to another already disbanded studio. Also, the P&S is based on another engine, it's not based on the Archon.

I think there are a couple of inaccuracies here, but I will let those who are entitled and know to clarify, if needed

[Athos1660]

Btw, speaking of P&S2 and block models, I guess I wouldn't be against updated block models if I could zoom in more than in P&S and have them a bit prettier (with more detailed textures...).

[Paul59]

I highly doubt the Slitherine will upgrade the Archon Engine, as if they want to, the Kingdom will not be based on the old one.

I'm not saying that they will, just that it's not impossible.

I don't understand your point about Kingdoms, as Kingdoms already links to FOG2 Medieval which continues to use the old Archon engine. I assume any new game will be in a different era and/or geographical area to Kingdoms, so it isn't an issue.

I don't think the last will happen, as the development of P&S was related to another already disbanded studio. Also, the P&S is based on another engine, it's not based on the Archon.

Are you referring to Lordz Game Studio? Too be honest, I don't know what involvement they had in P&S, as far as I know Byzantine Games (ie: RBS) did the vast bulk of the development. But maybe Lordz have some rights over the name, which I am sure is not the end of the world, surely Slitherine could work something out?

Archon is just a development of the engine used in P&S (and Sengoku Jidai, Battle Academy 1&2, and Hell). It is very very similar. In fact, if you look in some of FOG2's scripts you will see lines of code lifted straight from P&S and even Battle Academy. I have seen references to Axis/Allies and the US!

[Dux Limitis]

I highly doubt the Slitherine will upgrade the Archon Engine, as if they want to, the Kingdom will not be based on the old one.

Are you referring to Lordz Game Studio? Too be honest, I don't know what involvement they had in P&S, as far as I know Byzantine Games (ie: RBS) did the vast bulk of the development. But maybe Lordz have some rights over the name, which I am sure is not the end of the world, surely Slitherine could work something out?

Archon is just a development of the engine used in P&S (and Sengoku Jidai, Battle Academy 1&2, and Hell). It is very very similar. In fact, if you look in some of FOG2's scripts you will see lines of code lifted straight from P&S and even Battle Academy. I have seen references to Axis/Allies and the US!

Yep, it's the Lordz, but in case we all don't know the inside works, so we can't really have a conclusion on this.

For the last one, I don't think the assets, which mean animations/models based on the new engine could be used on the older one. You will also need to make a lot of new models and textures for the Renaissance and Early Modern periods, which will take more time, and use them to upgrade an old game without any payback, that doesn't sound like a possible solution to me.