Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

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Delta66
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Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

After completing Grand Campaign East in Ultimate difficulty with chess mode combat,
I now take a look at Grand Campaign West.

Foreword:

Playing with un-modded Panzer Corps Gold edition, rules 1.20, reform units.
I might reload poor heroes, or extreme weather.

For a discussion on the difficulty setting and combat mode see the previous thread
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113053

Here follow an analysis of GC West proper:


GC West intro:

The flow of GC west is very different from GC east, GC east requires planning and developing your core as well as managing your prestige for the long run. In sharp contrast you can only pick 9 (plus your 4 SE units) of your core units from GC 41 to start GC west 42/43 moreover your prestige is reset to "zero", or to be more precise, at the start of your second turn in GC west 42/43 first scenario St Nazaire :
- your prestige is reduced by 99 999pp,
- then you gain 2000pp, a value that is reduced both by difficulty level xp settings and Soft Cap.
Actually in Ultimate 2000 is reduced by 50% to 1000pp then further reduced by Soft Cap to 42% (for me)
for a meager 420pp.

Considering that your prestige will be reset, and taking into account that prestige gains will be very limited in GC west 42/43, I choose to spend as much as I can in the first setup phase. In particular I upgrade all selected units to the best hardware in their respective categories. You can try to use weaker units to reduce the Soft Cap penalty but be warned that in many 42/43 west scenarios you will receive extra core units that will negatively affect your Soft Cap. So in practice here I choose to bring as much as prestige with me in hardware form. Moreover this strategy has the advantage of fielding stronger units, which is much welcome:

Selecting 9 units out of a reserve of 30-40 calls for tough decisions. First consider your 4 free SE units, which will likely be:

- One SE Grenadier (Sdkfz.251/1) and three SE Pz.IV F/2.
- Or four SE Pz.IV F/2 and no Grenadier. In practice this option is better Soft Cap wise.

NB: if you play on Field Marshall or lower difficulty I strongly recommend not to use the special heroes and disband them as they appear in the scenario.
Then if you choose to play with the special heroes some choices are more or less mandatory:

- I3 M3 Grenadier, Oleh Dir, or any infantry type you want
- A2 I3 Grenadier, Helmut Wirnsberger
- A2 D2 S2 Pz.IV F/2, Albert Kerscher
- A1 D1 I2 M1 S1 Pz.IV F/2, Heinz Rondorf
- A2 D1 I2 Bf.109F, Heinrich Bar
- A9 D9 M1 Bf.110F, Uber Rudel

Those outstanding heroes are hard to ignore, moreover those units might well have acquired additional heroes In the meantime making them even more desirable.

Overall this makes
3x Grenadiers
5x Pz.IV F/2
1x Bf.109F
1x Bf.110F

For the 3 remaining slots, I very strongly recommend suppression means, that is artillery.

- I recommend Wurfrahmen as they are expensive and will be harder to purchase thereafter. Moreover their movement of 6 and high efficiency vs soft targets are desirable for the fast moving low intensity battles of 42. Finally their higher kill factor allows them to get xp and heroes faster. I suggest that you upgrade your level 3 artillery with the best heroes (that is A3 or A2) and/or with the more kills to Wurfrahmen. However I suggest you take at least one Range 3 artillery for more flexibility. That is either a R1 Wurfrahmen or a SturmPz.I with a good Attack hero.

- You can consider taking a strategic bomber especially if you have one with a A3 or A2 hero, though I don’t recommend it as the excellent He.177A will be available in GC west 42/43 second scenario, and also because strategic bombers tend to level up quickly which is not the case of artillery.

- I strongly recommend the multipurpose Bf.110f for uber Rudel as the ability to attack enemy aircraft becomes critical with such a low core limit. Moreover western allies air forces are significantly stronger than the Soviet ones. Additionally a Stuka would instead be a liability against the lethal British or US fighters. In Ultimate most enemy planes have more than 15 steps so having a second plane able to finish the enemy after your lone fighter attack is priceless.

- for infantry Grenadiers are the most efficient and versatile, especially as 1943 is coming very soon in GC west 42/43 sixth scenario. And Grenadiers 43 are the best German infantry type in the game, in defense and vs enemy AFV in particular. For infantry transport I suggest the flexible Sdkfz.251/1. The improved Sdkfz.250/1 gives an extra 2 movement points but for a large prestige cost, and the coresponding higher Soft Cap penalty. That said if you play without the -50% penalty of Rommel or Ultimate difficulty you’ll certainly enjoy the extra movement points. And once you hit the max Soft Cap penalty of 20% you would as well have the better hardware anyway.

- For your Panzer, the new long barreled Pz.IV F/2 is a no-brainer. It is efficient both vs soft and hard targets.


1939-41 strategies for GC west:

You can either develop an all around core from the start of the campaign in 1939 that can be used efficiently either in GC east and GC west or you can optimize your core for each specific branch. At any rate keep in mind that the desired cores for each branch are very different, not to say opposite.

Whatever units you plan to select for GC west it is best to have a very clear picture in advance. This allows you to carefully develop those 9 units to their maximum. That’s try to reach the 375xp ceiling of 1941 and amass as many kills as you can with those 9 regular and 4 SE units to get the more chance to receive heroes. In practice it means when you farm at the end of any scenarios since the start of 1939 focus primarily on those selected units. In particular pay a special attention to those arriving late in 41:

- A2 I3 Grenadier, Helmut Wirnsberger, Smolensk 41-5
- A1 D1 I2 M1 S1 Pz.IV F/2, Heinz Rondorf, Smolensk 41-5
- A9 D9 M1 Bf.110F, Uber Rudel, Minsk 41-4

For the other units you should have no problem reaching 375xp, but any extra heroes will give you a little more punch or flexibility for GC west 42/43. If you are developing your core specifically for GC west prestige became, mostly, a non issue. And you can spend to your heart content if it helps your selected units gets more kills or xp. In particular you can repeatedly changes equipment branches and purchase overstrength all over again. For example as soon as Wurfrahmen become available upgrade your best current artillery to wurfrahmen it will help you get more xp and kills even if you plan to switch back later to another artillery type. Similarily if you plan to use a strategic bomber for GC west upgrade him to the best hardware whenever possible.

In contrast for GC East it is better to farm with your less experienced units as your veterans will reach the maximum anyway over the course of the long campaign. Moreover in GC east carefully managing your prestige, including skipping some upgrade hardware branches, is important if you want to be able to purchase Tigers.II and Me.262 later in the game.

In practice it is not too hard to develop a core that will work for both branches. But if you want to go all out for GC west losses and elite repairs is a good way to get experience faster. Attack un-suppressed, or poorly suppressed strong enemies and repair with elite replacements. As attacking highly suppressed units yields less xp.

Here I will use a core developed mostly for GC east and not optimized for GC west. If you have followed my GC east Ultimate Chess walkthrough. I just started back in Leningrad 41 where I had not used Helmut Wirnsberger. In practice I just replayed the four last 1941 scenarios focusing on developing my units selected for GC west.

Here we go:

42/43-1 St Nazaire
https://youtu.be/MaWWprkAy98



Final Thoughts after completing the campaign up to 1945, the End on the Elbe


Panzer Corps GC West Ultimate Debriefing

Keeping SE slots only for heavy tanks is more important than in GC East. The Soft Cap penalty is much more a problem in GC West than in GC East where you can easily hoard large amounts of prestige before the Soft Cap penalty starts to hit you. As SE units don’t count toward Soft Cap, it is better to use all slots for heavy tanks. So it is best to use your 4 initial slot for Pz.IV F/2 which are very good all-rounders.

Later in the campaign you will receive a SE BF.109 then a SE BF.110, they both have great heroes, but both planes are a bit outdated when you receive them and they cannot be upgraded. Moreover the 1944-45 winter features many scenarios with bad weather, so being forced to use a SE slot for a plane that may attack maybe 50% of the time is a waste of resource. Overall it is more efficient to disband those SE planes for prestige and free a SE slot.

I suggest you disband any SE units that is not a heavy tank. In lower difficulties you may have enough prestige to upgrade a medium SE tank to a heavy one, but if you are short on prestige wait until you get a Panther or Tiger.II this will save you a lot of prestige.

An armored car is quite useful in several GC West scenarios, especially when you have a low number of turns to capture many remote flags. The most important points are movement (8) and movement type (Recon, not truck). I’d rather pick armored car with better soft attack as anyway armored car vs tank is a bad match-up, but any of the 8 rad should be fine.

As mentioned earlier there are a number of scenarios with bad weather. So a lot, I mean a LOT, of artillery will help you suppress targets to avoid losses. Wurfrahmen are awesome but expensive, Hummel are flexible and cost barely more than a towed 150 mm gun with a truck, though they have less ammo.

I finished the campaign with 6 fighters, this should be fine on lower difficulties but an extra fighter would certainly be helpful when facing massive air waves. In lower difficulties the Me.262 are super strong, but when facing enemy with +5 strength their low defense value is sometime troublesome. Supposing you disband the SE Bf.110, I think an extra fighter might be more useful than a third tactical bomber.

Anyway, in contrast to GC East, you should develop 2 or 3 Flak. Note the Italian Flak you receive at Taranto is very good as it has almost the same stats as an 88 mm Flak.36 but he enjoys the benefit of a Sdkfz.251/1 transport than can fire in move mode, which can be very handy. Self propelled Flak are very useful in some scenarios but they lack punch at lower level, in particular on higher difficulties they might not give enough protection to neighboring units. Moreover they level up slowly compared to switchable AT/Flak. During the course of the campaign you can capture a Flak 40 at Syracuse and a 90 mm Italian Flak at Taranto

About captured units, in general it is better to disband most of them for prestige, and eventually purchase something similar but with better longevity or good upgrade path. Early on (Bayonne, Hardelot, Dieppe) it will represent a good amount of prestige. I kept the KV-C from Dieppe as he received an early D2 hero but I was disappointed by his performances. The KV-1 low hard attack value made him a target for US Tank Destroyers even with his high hard defense. Similarly Firefly have great hard attack but low hard defense rendering them also vulnerable. In contrast Panthers combine good hard attack and defense and are much more robust overall.

Here are the units you should consider keeping in the 1945 historical campaign branch:
-Dieppe:
2x Fw190.A, those are super helpful to boost your air force.

- Syracuse:
Flak 40, though I favor Flak.36 for their dual use the Flak 40 is the most powerful Flak you can get.

-Messina:
Ta.152H Fighter with D4 SI hero
DO.335A Tac Bomber with A3 M3 hero
Those 2 planes are must have, be sure to complete the requested evacuation with 1 turn remaining on the clock to get them. You receive those prototype planes much earlier than their official release date, and their heroes make them even stronger. Furthermore they have extra strength points.

- Taranto:
90/53M41c Flak, great with his attack capable half-track transport.

- Bayeux:
Firefly with D3 M2 hero, the D3 barely offsets the low Firefly hard defense, but if you have enough prestige to upgrade it to a Panther this makes an awesome strong Panzer with a movement of 8.

- St Vith:
The Jagdtiger with A2 M2 S2 hero, is powerful its main drawbacks are very low fuel, which is a real pain in the many snow scenarios and low ammo. Moreover as a latecomer he wont have time to earn a lot of xp. Yet he can handle the strongest enemy tanks.

The 2 Panzer Grenadiere from Taranto are quite good with their impressive A9 D7 I3 S1 heroes but as transport units they can’t earn experience. So if your difficulty level give the enemy +5 strength points (Manstein, Ultimate) they are quite fragile, otherwise they are good infantry like units with movement of 6.

I strongly suggest you disband all the one use units like minefields or V weapons, the prestige you’ll receive is better than the one time effect. Moreover you can win all forthcoming battles without using them.

In addition to those capturable units you’ll receive another very good special hero Fw.190A with D4 I2 hero at Syracuse.

In GC West enemy spawning is not such an issue as in GC East, as in most scenarios the enemy only has a core limit of 1 or 2. That is the AI won’t spawn new units until her core unit is reduced to 0 or 1. Be careful though that in some scenario the AI also has silver border auxiliary units. Moreover the AI only accumulate a very small amount of prestige each turn. Spawning is not a big threat and you often have time to capture flags, but be careful not to forget about it.

A key point in this campaign is managing the Syracuse-Etna Line-Messina sequence. You must save AS MUCH AS Italian units you can in Syracuse, don’t be satisfied to exit just the number required by the victory conditions. Repair them to full strength with green replacements. Then use them if you want for Etna Line, but be sure you don’t lose any of them. Before Starting the Messina scenario you can disband all auxiliary Italians for a massive amount of prestige. In Messina you can evacuate the required number of units to the east of the strait by using only your core units.

In several scenario like Etna Line or Montélimar you can exit units during the battle through exit zones. Try to use this to reduce your Soft Cap penalty during the endgame before capturing remaining flags or forcing surrenders. Remember that SE units don’t count toward Soft Cap. So try to exit some expensive planes or Panzer before hunting for prestige.

Final GC West 45 save:
(20.09.2024) End on the Elbe, Turn 17-fin-.zip
End on the Elbe-turn 17
(91.17 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Last edited by Delta66 on Thu Oct 24, 2024 11:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
PeteMitchell
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by PeteMitchell »

Amazing instructions!
Please allow me to ask why do you recommend not to use the special heroes and disband them?
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
Delta66
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

I made this suggestion if you play on Field Marshall or lower difficulty. Initially when the Grand Campaign was released those special heroes were not present. And the campaign was not hard to complete with only DV. Later the devs introduced the special heroes, which make the campaign that much easier. I won't say they break the balance of the game as the game isn't very balanced IMHO, but they certainly reduce the challenge. In practice if you have played the GC without the special heroes, you know you don't really them, using them doesn't encourage you to improve your strategy and tactics.

Obviously each player the game how he prefers and that's fine.
PeteMitchell
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by PeteMitchell »

"using them doesn't encourage you to improve your strategy and tactics"

100% agreed
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
PeteMitchell
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by PeteMitchell »

So you mean all of these?

- I3 M3 Grenadier, Oleh Dir
- A2 I3 Grenadier, Helmut Wirnsberger
- A2 D2 S2 Pz.IV F/2, Albert Kerscher
- A1 D1 I2 M1 S1 Pz.IV F/2, Heinz Rondorf
- A2 D1 I2 Bf.109F, Heinrich Bar
- A9 D9 M1 Bf.110F, Uber Rudel
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
Delta66
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

Yes indeed. Again I made this comment for playing on FM difficulty. And Personally I would not use them either in Rommel.
However in this series of video I play in Ultimate and I do use them.

I think the additional special heroes were introduced with revision 1.20, though I am not sure. At the time, if I remember, many experienced players didn't like this addition much. But if the first time you play the game they are already a feature you think it is a integral part of the game. I can see players finding this addition appealing though.

Another thing is you spend time developing your own units. Then special heroes came out of nowhere, and dwarf your own units. In GC west this is even more apparent. as you can carry only 9 core units from 1941. And as I say in my initial post, if you think about efficiency first, it is hard to ignore those you mentioned in your list. So in practice the real choice is even more limited. And you actually "choose" only 3 units.
Delta66
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

That being said, having played GC east in Chess mode gave me a different appreciation of heroes. with the wild RNG it is more difficult to get feedback for the precise effect of heroes.

A1 or D1 is close to nothing. A3 is close to having a +1 kill on average per attack. Though it depends on many other factors. Overstrength first of course. But then it is not linear. Attack +3 on a late war unit with 20+ attack value, like your typical Panzer or fighter plane, is not such a big boost compared to A3 for an early war infantry. Then the higher the defense of the target the lower the effect of your attack hero is.

If you check the detailed combat log, a strength 15 Me.262 get a base attack value of 28 in air combat, plus 2x5 for experience plus any heroes. So you can easily be over 40. At this point having A2 or A7 heroes doesn't make a lot of difference.

So Uber Rudel with his impressive numbers will get around plus 3 kills, less vs heavily armored or entrenched units and maybe a little more against very soft targets.
Locarnus
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Locarnus »

Delta66 wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:00 pm So Uber Rudel with his impressive numbers will get around plus 3 kills, less vs heavily armored or entrenched units and maybe a little more against very soft targets.
Yep, with PzC engine there are caps to effective stat boosting.
Like an initiative hero is useless in closed terrain and beyond 5 initiative difference to enemies. Imho the super movement of Oleh Dir scales a lot better, essentially creating a whole new unit in terms of usability.
Interesting suggestion from your earlier post about switching Uber Rudel to a Bf 110!
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
Delta66
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

Oleh Dir is super strong with M3 combined with I3. Indeed it opens the way to new tactics.

I use Bf.110 because it has a nice and cheap upgrade path up to Me.410 all in family. And a Me.410 with Uber Rudel won't be attacked by allied fighter. In contrast Stuka are extremely vulnerable in Ultimate difficulty. Not only you must dedicate an escort fighter, but it might not be enough to prevent an attack. And my fighters are already very busy whenever an allied air wave comes in. Moreover in many cases I rely on combined arms and suppression rather than raw firepower.
PeteMitchell
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by PeteMitchell »

Very interesting discussion!
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481
huckc
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by huckc »

GC West is extremely fun on Ultimate and getting to Sealion 45' was surprisingly doable, weather and all :)
Delta66
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

Considering the units I chose from 1941. There are 2 easy improvements.

- First I kept my SE Grenadier from the very beginning of the campaign. Obviously having a regular Grenadier and a SE Panzer instead would save some Soft Cap. In my case the difference between a SE Grenadier (Sdkfz.251/1) and a Pz.IV F/2 change the Soft Cap from 42% up to 49%.

- Second I use a Bf.110 F for uber Rudel but the Bf.110 version D could be good enough, minus 1 vs armor and minus 5 vs air. It would save another 3% in Soft Cap.
Delta66
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Re: Grand Campaign West -Ultimate Difficulty - Chess Mode

Post by Delta66 »

I have updated my initial post to keep everything in a single place.
I added some comments after the end of the Campaign.
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