Does the heroes you get change your approach?

[Korvessa]

I started this campaign with the intention of using just German equipment with a modified self-imposed collector
(Only one pioneer, but no restrictions on other infantry; only one of each type of strat/tac bombers, but no restrictions on fighters; As much as possible, no duplicate tanks, no prototypes).
But then the heroes I have been awarded are trying to force me to change.

Just started 1941 after beginning campaign in 1939 with imported SCW force. I have the following:
4 x overrun
5 x overwhelm
2 x envelope
1 x shock

The game is begging me to play "Kleptokrieg"

[Tassadar]

It's inevitable with the random element the hero assignments can have on the game. I had many of my runs get heroes of questionable usefulness for the self-imposed rules I had, for example multiples of Learns from Mistakes on Panzermon where I was doing what I could to not incur losses, or First Aid heroes in the same one where I only could ever use two infantry units reliably.

However this is partial "fault" of the length of AO DLC is addressed already by the ability to set the hero chance to less than 100%. You can always just sell the heroes entirely, or assign them to units that will not cause such challenges, but of course I can see how Overwhelming Attack and Envelopment in such numbers can be hard to reassign in different ways and not skew the way you want to play.

My best recommendation to prevent such things in the first place, is to think about general traits and advanced options before starting specific challenge runs - in this case selecting Ruthless would prevent the problem in most cases. Of course it would make the two Envelopment heroes essentially useless, but Overwhelming Attack and Shock Tactics could still have some utility, just not so obvious as they usually do. Traits and other customization options are the great balancer, but the RNG gods will of course always triumph in the end.

Besides it is still better than the random hero system in Panzer Corps 1, where the randomness could spawn heroes stat bonuses basically useless for particular classes.

[robman]

Forcing a surrender doesn’t force you to deploy a captured unit, so from my reading of your rules, you can happily accept the prestige earned from captures and then delete any resulting captured units, thus removing the option of deploying them.

To answer the broader question: Yes, my playing approach responds to my collection of heroes. I find Camouflage in particular to be a real tactics-changer.

[cutydt02]

Yes indeed.
To half way of AO 1940 and the randomness gave me somewhat 3 zero slot heroes + 2 decrease 50% slot. Every mission is getting easier and easier that makes me think about play a capture-only run

[Bee1976]

Thats the biggest issue. The RNG hero generation and no real chance to change them without using cheatcodes.

I would still like a feature like in FG II - some kind of "exchange" system. I mean, im the big bad general, but im not allowed to promote heros myself. I would like to spend prestige/CP to promote a hero myself. But that would need a real big rework of the hero system i think.

[adiekmann]

At the very beginning of playing PC2, I did not realize that the heroes you were awarded would be determined at the very start for the entire DLC. So I would do what I did in PC1: If I knew a unit was on the brink of topping the number of kills to earn a hero, I would save the game in case it was utter crap and reload (e.g. spotting hero on artillery or First Aid in SCW).

In PC2, I am not looking for the "perfect" hero each time, but just not an overabundance of garbage or three OA + Env combos or five Zero Slot heroes in the same DLC. What I find most effective, actually, is some sort of balance of heroes and not a highly skewed group of over-powered or weak heroes. That is boring or frustrating.

[adiekmann]

Thats the biggest issue. The RNG hero generation and no real chance to change them without using cheatcodes.

I would still like a feature like in FG II - some kind of "exchange" system. I mean, im the big bad general, but im not allowed to promote heros myself. I would like to spend prestige/CP to promote a hero myself. But that would need a real big rework of the hero system i think.

I agree. CP would be much more exciting if you could sometimes spend them on heroes, or even unique heroes where you could choose their traits, kind of like we did with Rudel. As a player who rarely used captured equipment (except in SCW), that would be much more preferred.

[Tassadar]

Thats the biggest issue. The RNG hero generation and no real chance to change them without using cheatcodes.

I would still like a feature like in FG II - some kind of "exchange" system. I mean, im the big bad general, but im not allowed to promote heros myself. I would like to spend prestige/CP to promote a hero myself. But that would need a real big rework of the hero system i think.

I agree. CP would be much more exciting if you could sometimes spend them on heroes, or even unique heroes where you could choose their traits, kind of like we did with Rudel. As a player who rarely used captured equipment (except in SCW), that would be much more preferred.

The base game and usual 10-25 mission campaigns, be it base ones or mods, work well with what was proposed by default. It's just that the scale of AO grew beyond the original setup. The hero probability slider addresses this, but is not something universal. I'd agree the overhaul could be a welcome change. Maybe allow the player to pay something around 20% of his prestige or instead 1 CP in each scenario for an ability to choose from a selection of 3 rather than 1 random. Or give a trait that allows for hero selection at a very steep trait point cost, but also causes the heroes to be granted only every other mission. Ultimately the problem is the same - by fixing one thing it is easy to break another and while hero repeats or RNG in hero creation can be frustrating, messing with this in the players favor can easily break the balance.

[robman]

Maybe hero chance could be decreased by default as the AO years go by?

[Bee1976]

The hero probability slider addresses this, but is not something universal. I'd agree the overhaul could be a welcome change. Maybe allow the player to pay something around 20% of his prestige or instead 1 CP in each scenario for an ability to choose from a selection of 3 rather than 1 random. Or give a trait that allows for hero selection at a very steep trait point cost, but also causes the heroes to be granted only every other mission. Ultimately the problem is the same - by fixing one thing it is easy to break another and while hero repeats or RNG in hero creation can be frustrating, messing with this in the players favor can easily break the balance.

I agree with you, better hero generation or hero assignment can cause probems and break the balance, but thats a player decision. You can use the Slider to get less heros, you can limit the mount of heros per unit and of course you can simply "sell" hero you consider bad for the fun-experience of your playthrough.
right now, the solution is using cheat codes. And as long as they exist, there is no balance at all

The player can break the balance everytime he wants to. So the player got all the tools that are needed to impact the balance. maybe a hero overhaul should be simply an option, so the player gets one more tool to adjust his experience.
I mean options are never a ad thing, i would prefer way more options/challnges/traits so i can choose what fits best for me, because every player likes something else.

I would never demand other players to play the way i do with the settings i select, because every player is diffrent and consider other stuff than i as fun.
but i would glady accept more options and some more love for the hero system

[Tassadar]

You can use the Slider to get less heros, you can limit the mount of heros per unit and of course you can simply "sell" hero you consider bad for the fun-experience of your playthrough.

Actually, this reminds me of another solution often proposed in such topics. That is either adding a slider, or setting a default limit, on the number of repeats that can happen in the hero generation and set it to anything between 2 to 6.

If not possible due to the way heroes are pre-assigned at the start, especially if reading the data from the core save is difficult, then adjust the script that generates them to slightly lessen the probability of repeats, let's say by 20% with the first copy, then 40%, 60% etc. This should make multiples less probable.

[kathynapoli]

Thanks FOr Sharing this content

[milliethedog]

Hi, you could just give your enemy extra heroes from the start. I have played from SCW right through to 46 giving them first play through 1 hero to every enemy unit on the map at the start of a battle, then after that run through, 2 heroes each. I have just finished a run through giving 3 heroes each. Every time it changed the game for me, Some enemy units became real monsters with up to 6 or 7 heroes, in some games it was impossible to get Bonuses and camo heroes on aircraft (linked with lighting attacks) caused me endless problems when playing with quick moves until i found their locations. It is a game changer for me as i never know what i am going to get next and every playthrough is different.
Just my 10 cents worth.
Martin

[DefiantXYX]

I also did some runs with heroes for the AI. For me its just annoying in the end. 95% of the heroes do not really change anything, because the AI does not know how to work with heroes. But if some units get Prudent you cant kill them, especially when playing David vs Goliath. Its just not possible. And sometimes you just lose a core unit because the ai somehow combined overwhelming attack and Shock&Wave or something like that.
Imo it would be far better if the AI could only get basic heroes, that are boosting the stats of a unit.

[milliethedog]

Hi, you are correct about Prudent heroes, these can be really tough, however i was able to eventually kill every unit with them until 46. Twice i have met units that were massively over strength e.g The Texas rangers strength 30 no matter what i did i could not kill them. I then thought to us the German Atomic bomber, i hit them once reducing them to 1 unit, surrounded them so they could not re-enforce and then hit them again after pulling my troops back. Job done. Giving Every unit 3 Heroes means that almost every enemy unit has some advantage and in the early years this can make a real difference as the enemy has many more heroes in play than you.
Martin