Having in mind to build up a campaign mod focused on the “Age of Reason” period I was asking myself some questions that someone of you, guys, could maybe help me answer.
Firstly I’m not sure when the last pike and shot units were used, being a bit confused seeing that in the Bavarian army list of 1689-1698 present in the “Extra Nations mod” they are already gone while, if I remember well, they were certainly present in the swedish army during the battle of Poltava in 1709.
Of course the change wasn’t immediate everywhere, but I’m trying to understand if it happened earlier in continental europe and only later in northern and eastern europe.
Secondly, I’m wondering which are the units much apt to portray the cavalry of the period, given that in many books treating the period is named the presence of Hussars, Dragoons, Carabiniers and also Cuirassiers, which are quite difficult to represent in the game, having many doubts that the cavaliers unit of the ECW period could be feasible to be used.
Thirdly it would be interesting to understand which is the best available units to depict grenadiers and if any difference should be made between units of musketeers and fusiliers (that are sometimes mentioned in the sources too).
Lastly, I’m asking myself if some major changes, like those experienced in the first twenty years of the XVIII century, occurred in the second half of the same century or if the army of this period substantially resembled their immediate predecessor, which seems to me the most obvious reply.
Thank’s for any much needed suggestion!
AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
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Lysimachos
- Colonel - Fallschirmjäger

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AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
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SnuggleBunnies
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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
Pikes were gradually being phased out already in the late 17th century, with many armies fielding some units of foot without pike, thanks to plug bayonets. Those that did field pike usually had 1/4 - 1/6 of a battalion of foot armed with the weapon, often interspersed as a single rank, but some still retaining the central block. By 1700 though, it was basically gone everywhere except amongst the Swedes and Russians. The Swedes still utilized them as a central block, integral to their Ga Pa shock tactics. The Russians (at least in theory) interspersed every other man in the front rank with a pike to stiffen them against a charge. That said, as the GNW went on, it seems that fewer and fewer pikemen were used, and I think by the end use was rare.Lysimachos wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:54 pm Firstly I’m not sure when the last pike and shot units were used, being a bit confused seeing that in the Bavarian army list of 1689-1698 present in the “Extra Nations mod” they are already gone while, if I remember well, they were certainly present in the swedish army during the battle of Poltava in 1709.
Of course the change wasn’t immediate everywhere, but I’m trying to understand if it happened earlier in continental europe and only later in northern and eastern europe.
Exceptions remained in the form of desperate rebels, such as the Irish in the 1798 rising.
The terminology of the era is a mess, and how to portray the cavalry of each nation would also depend on how much time you are planning to cover. If your plan is to cover the early portion, a great reference is 'The Art of Warfare in the Age of Marlborough' by David Chandler, which also has the great virtue of being affordable.Secondly, I’m wondering which are the units much apt to portray the cavalry of the period, given that in many books treating the period is named the presence of Hussars, Dragoons, Carabiniers and also Cuirassiers, which are quite difficult to represent in the game, having many doubts that the cavaliers unit of the ECW period could be feasible to be used.
I think fusilier/musketeer was largely interchangeable. Setting aside the Swedes, I think you could basically have levies, line infantry, grenadiers/guards. Note that, while the game has Bombs as a capability units can have, it's my understanding that grenades were really only used in naval and siege actions, not in open battle.Thirdly it would be interesting to understand which is the best available units to depict grenadiers and if any difference should be made between units of musketeers and fusiliers (that are sometimes mentioned in the sources too).
MP Replays:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjUQy6dEqR53NwoGgjxixLg
Pike and Shot-Sengoku Jidai Crossover Mod:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116259
Middle Earth mod:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1029243#p1029243
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjUQy6dEqR53NwoGgjxixLg
Pike and Shot-Sengoku Jidai Crossover Mod:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116259
Middle Earth mod:
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1029243#p1029243
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Lysimachos
- Colonel - Fallschirmjäger

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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
Many thank's Snugglebunnies for the lots of suggestions and clarifications.
'The Art of Warfare in the Age of Marlborough' is already in my library and I will certainly consult it when back home (being now on holidays on the Alps).
I'm also planning to buy "Warfare in the Age of Reason", by Kershner and Wood, that should contain a lot of army lists of the period, to be used as a costant reference.
On the other side, the fact that grenadiers didn't frequently use grenades in open battle should resolve the problem, maybe representing them as common infantry line battalions, with superior morale, to distinguish them from the common units.
'The Art of Warfare in the Age of Marlborough' is already in my library and I will certainly consult it when back home (being now on holidays on the Alps).
I'm also planning to buy "Warfare in the Age of Reason", by Kershner and Wood, that should contain a lot of army lists of the period, to be used as a costant reference.
On the other side, the fact that grenadiers didn't frequently use grenades in open battle should resolve the problem, maybe representing them as common infantry line battalions, with superior morale, to distinguish them from the common units.
"Audentis fortuna iuvat"
- Virgilius
(Good luck favours the brave)
- Virgilius
(Good luck favours the brave)
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gribol
- Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL

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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
I will try to look for something at home (I no longer remember what books I own myself), but perhaps you can find the following item in your country? It looks very accurate.
https://napoleonv.pl/historia-armii-pru ... roku-tom-i
https://napoleonv.pl/historia-armii-pru ... roku-tom-i
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Lysimachos
- Colonel - Fallschirmjäger

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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
Thank's Gribol,gribol wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:27 am I will try to look for something at home (I no longer remember what books I own myself), but perhaps you can find the following item in your country? It looks very accurate.
https://napoleonv.pl/historia-armii-pru ... roku-tom-i
I'll have a look if I can find the book in english!
"Audentis fortuna iuvat"
- Virgilius
(Good luck favours the brave)
- Virgilius
(Good luck favours the brave)
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gribol
- Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL

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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
I had a quick look in the aforementioned book yesterday and:
- The withdrawal of pikes has already been described by Snugglebunnies (generally removed gradually over the last 30 years of the 17th century in different States at different rates)
- Grenadiers differed only in dress (they can be considered as elite units). Grenades were only used at sieges.
- A musket differs from a fusilier by its lock (fuse or rock) - probably
- as for the cavalry, it can generally be assumed that cuirassiers and dragoons fought the same way (line cavalry in formation, often in cuirasses). Hussars are light cavalry without armour, fast and for special tasks (once performed by dragoons) - but I will read more about this
- whether the army changed during the 18th century - I'll also try to read up, but I'm currently stuck in besieged Carthage again :/.
All this information comes from the book I recommended. It is very comprehensive and very accurate. The author also wrote a book on Frederick the Great's Army, so it's a comprehensive picture of the Prussian army over a period of just over 100 years.
If you would like me to look for further information, please write. I understand that it takes a while to work on a mod like this.
Alternatively, you can contact Cronos09, with whom we once discussed a similar issue a bit (I recommend the battles of Kolin, Kesseldorf and Soor).
- The withdrawal of pikes has already been described by Snugglebunnies (generally removed gradually over the last 30 years of the 17th century in different States at different rates)
- Grenadiers differed only in dress (they can be considered as elite units). Grenades were only used at sieges.
- A musket differs from a fusilier by its lock (fuse or rock) - probably
- as for the cavalry, it can generally be assumed that cuirassiers and dragoons fought the same way (line cavalry in formation, often in cuirasses). Hussars are light cavalry without armour, fast and for special tasks (once performed by dragoons) - but I will read more about this
- whether the army changed during the 18th century - I'll also try to read up, but I'm currently stuck in besieged Carthage again :/.
All this information comes from the book I recommended. It is very comprehensive and very accurate. The author also wrote a book on Frederick the Great's Army, so it's a comprehensive picture of the Prussian army over a period of just over 100 years.
If you would like me to look for further information, please write. I understand that it takes a while to work on a mod like this.
Alternatively, you can contact Cronos09, with whom we once discussed a similar issue a bit (I recommend the battles of Kolin, Kesseldorf and Soor).
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Lysimachos
- Colonel - Fallschirmjäger

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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
Thank's a lot Gribol for your comprehensive replies.
I'll make good use of them!
About the changes in the second half of the 18th century I think that will be of great help also the reading of "Warfare in the Age of Reason", by Kershner and Wood, and of some campaign Osprey Campaign series title that wait me at home.
I'll let you know if there are progresses on the issue ...
I'll make good use of them!
About the changes in the second half of the 18th century I think that will be of great help also the reading of "Warfare in the Age of Reason", by Kershner and Wood, and of some campaign Osprey Campaign series title that wait me at home.
I'll let you know if there are progresses on the issue ...
"Audentis fortuna iuvat"
- Virgilius
(Good luck favours the brave)
- Virgilius
(Good luck favours the brave)
-
gribol
- Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL

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Re: AGE OF REASON CAMPAIGN
A quick addendum from what I've read
- infantry tactics generally did not undergo major changes during the 18th century (some tactical details changed, they are so insignificant that it is not worth writing about)
- Cavalry (Prussian) - Cuirassiers had cuirasses weighing about 11 kg, tested for resistance to musket fire. Dragoons (now also line cavalry) had no armor at all. Hussars, as written recently, were “light” cavalry. The above based on a book by Chritopher Duffy https://www.swiatksiazki.pl/the-army-of ... iazka.html
- infantry tactics generally did not undergo major changes during the 18th century (some tactical details changed, they are so insignificant that it is not worth writing about)
- Cavalry (Prussian) - Cuirassiers had cuirasses weighing about 11 kg, tested for resistance to musket fire. Dragoons (now also line cavalry) had no armor at all. Hussars, as written recently, were “light” cavalry. The above based on a book by Chritopher Duffy https://www.swiatksiazki.pl/the-army-of ... iazka.html