AOredone updated

[Andrea69]

Some thoughts on operation Kursk:
I am not a big fan of one larger battle compared to the 2 vanilla ones. And it was far too easy, the AI felt a bit too passive, not enganging with the tanks in time. And not enough planes, my Me262 was already bored after two turns.
I am also missing the Fritz(?!) Tiger in the second battle, the briefing with Rudel was also very nice and something unique.
In the vanilla game its very hard to break the lines because the combiantion of rivers, fortifications, anti-air and stuff. Thats too much softened in this version imo.
I know you guys set the focus rather on historical correctness, which is ok, but I would prefer some unique moments and challenges over this.
And to be fair, the first half of the vanilla AO 1943 might the best part of all the DLCs I have ever played.

But I do like the changes in the mission with the 6. army. The vanilla version is kinda boring and not challenging. This time I would have failed the secondary objective without some "adjustements". I was far to careless with the 6. army who got no chance vs. the russian armies on the left flank. I should have restarted to chose a better strategy
Feels very satisfying to get suprised again, instead of playing the same over and over again.
So I can just repeat myself, this Redone Mod is definately worse to be played, even if you got bored of the vanilla DLCs.
Would like to hear some more opinions of the changes.

Some thoughts on the hero script:
Looks like I have overcome the point when I was losing more prestige than gain on a map. Meanwhile I have too many prestige heroes due to the 5k heroes category. Tbh I never thought these heroes belong to the highest category, but they get more and more important. Would be nice again to get some more comments about players prestige situation, imo there could be some nerf for these heroes, lets say -10% prestige or something like that.

Thank you for your feedback, it is very important to improve the project. I do agree that Yakovlevo-Oboyan is a little too easy now, I will definitely make some changes in future versions. In this one I focused mainly on converting the two maps into one (still a complex job tbh), but it's clear that something more is needed in terms of gameplay. This obviously doesn't mean that I will reinstate Fritz (which in my opinion was some kind of joke by the developers). Apart from that, how did you find Kharkov43/Backend Blow?

I think the balance of the hero script is overall satisfactory, however we should hear Grondel's opinion on the matter

[Grondel]

I think the balance of the hero script is overall satisfactory, however we should hear Grondel's opinion on the matter

Since i still have 0 idea how to implement a LUA-Library into PC2, any change to the hero script forces me to revisit all of the nearly 200 scenarios that have it by now. not happening.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

Apart from that, how did you find Kharkov43/Backend Blow?

Thats the second battle, with Totenkopf Divisions?

Well, I did the same mistake like with the 6. army. I almost lost all aux. units in 5-6 turns. They dont stand a chance with David vs Goliath. I supported with 2 fighters but that was not enough. If I replay this one I would defend in the north unit my core forces can close up.
But the balance is fine imo, in this game its just a huge difference if you exactly know what is coming. Maybe some more AA guns would be nice for the aux units, but I think it would not change a lot.

Actually I could not kill one of the division to get all the secondary objective. This army killed my aux units and was camping after that in the north east corner of the map.

Instead of reworking the heroes a hard prestige reset for every DLC could be an idea. But I guess many players hates that, loosing stuff they were working for. And its hard to find out a good number, since gamers play this game differently.

[DefiantXYX]

Rostov ==> one more time encirclement is not possible, since there is a harbour. The whole mission and briefing makes no sense like that

[Andrea69]

Rostov ==> one more time encirclement is not possible, since there is a harbour. The whole mission and briefing makes no sense like that

Well, unfortunately I guess we will always disagree on this matter and I'm sorry because I understand your point of view anyway. Personally I don't like the encirclement mechanics in this game, even more so when to make it possible you have to go against the reality of history and geography, obliterating important rivers or even cities (like in other scenarios) or pretending that ports don't exist (like for example Taganrog in this one) which instead were objectively very important in the conflict we are trying to represent. It is a different approach which I had clearly stated in the initial readme

[DefiantXYX]

Maybe you should work the map a little bit more. Remove the aux units in the north who start to to the circle and remove the hightlightes hexes that suggest how you could close the circle. Players might be confused if they do what manstein says without any effect.

The second half of the DLC is good so far. Balance is fine, maps are intersting.
On the map with the soviet fleet I had the feeling again, that the AI is a way to passive. On the left side there are some tanks who do not really start a counterattack, they are just sitting there. Like the spanish AI when you order them to hold the position. Briefing says be careful, the russians are launching a counter attack, but even in the vanilla version there never really was such an attack.

[Andrea69]

Maybe you should work the map a little bit more. Remove the aux units in the north who start to to the circle and remove the hightlightes hexes that suggest how you could close the circle. Players might be confused if they do what manstein says without any effect.

The second half of the DLC is good so far. Balance is fine, maps are intersting.
On the map with the soviet fleet I had the feeling again, that the AI is a way to passive. On the left side there are some tanks who do not really start a counterattack, they are just sitting there. Like the spanish AI when you order them to hold the position. Briefing says be careful, the russians are launching a counter attack, but even in the vanilla version there never really was such an attack.

Hello, in the next version I’ll have a closer look at Rostov.
The problem in Astrakhan with the units not attacking you is easily fixable, will do. By the way how did you find the new Caucasus scenario on Manych river?

[88Flak]

Working my way through the redone AO. This is turning out to be a big improvement. Thank you for all the effort. I’ll post more as I get through more.

[DefiantXYX]

By the way how did you find the new Caucasus scenario on Manych river?

Is this the extra large map where you have to go from left to right, optional is to take some extra hexes?

But I remember Saratov. I was kinda struggeling the last maps so I decided to take a look first and I decided to disable DvG. Good decision, still it was very hard. And tbh I personally reached my "AO 1946 point", when its getting a bit boring. There are too many maps that are just like go from left to right and kill everything. The enemy numbers are just too high and the russian only got their best stuff. Especially annoying are the SU-152 "tanks" with a range of 4 and soft/hard support. Even with my camoflaged 21cm gun with extra range and double support and 7 ammo the ai doenst care. Its wasting a whole army just to do some decent damage on my weakest units. I am also running out of planes (limited stock) because the AI keeps attacking my bombers and doesnst care about support fire.
I know most of it is a lategame problem of the game, its not very entertaining if you army is maxed out and you just kill masses of enemys. I really enjoyed the elite objectives, so it might be better to create some kind of ueber units instead of masses of tanks and stuff. Or take city XY which is very well defended by masses of artillery and aa or something like that.

Maybe I found a bug in Kummersdorf 1944. After I rapaired my two guns (you really like that guns? ) they got the hero but also overstrength of 15. So the core slot requirement stays the same and its not really wise to overstrengthen these guns imo.
And afair since 1944 (?!) my 21 gun and ueber guns can shoot and drive. I am also using the PC1 mod, ,maybe it connected with it. But dont get me wrong, I prefer it that way;)

[Grondel]

And afair since 1944 (?!) my 21 gun and ueber guns can shoot and drive. I am also using the PC1 mod, ,maybe it connected with it. But dont get me wrong, I prefer it that way;)

I changed something about the heavy artillerie guns that was causing issues. they can now shoot and drive, but not drive and shoot.

sers,
Thomas

[Andrea69]

By the way how did you find the new Caucasus scenario on Manych river?

Is this the extra large map where you have to go from left to right, optional is to take some extra hexes?

But I remember Saratov. I was kinda struggeling the last maps so I decided to take a look first and I decided to disable DvG. Good decision, still it was very hard. And tbh I personally reached my "AO 1946 point", when its getting a bit boring. There are too many maps that are just like go from left to right and kill everything. The enemy numbers are just too high and the russian only got their best stuff. Especially annoying are the SU-152 "tanks" with a range of 4 and soft/hard support. Even with my camoflaged 21cm gun with extra range and double support and 7 ammo the ai doenst care. Its wasting a whole army just to do some decent damage on my weakest units. I am also running out of planes (limited stock) because the AI keeps attacking my bombers and doesnst care about support fire.
I know most of it is a lategame problem of the game, its not very entertaining if you army is maxed out and you just kill masses of enemys. I really enjoyed the elite objectives, so it might be better to create some kind of ueber units instead of masses of tanks and stuff. Or take city XY which is very well defended by masses of artillery and aa or something like that.

Wise decision to leave out DvG. For AO45 expect the final Soviet scenarios even harder than Saratov.

[/quote]
Maybe I found a bug in Kummersdorf 1944. After I rapaired my two guns (you really like that guns? ) they got the hero but also overstrength of 15. So the core slot requirement stays the same and its not really wise to overstrengthen these guns imo.
And afair since 1944 (?!) my 21 gun and ueber guns can shoot and drive. I am also using the PC1 mod, ,maybe it connected with it. But dont get me wrong, I prefer it that way;)
[/quote]

Well, take the repaired guns in Kummersdorf 1944 like an extra gift for your future battles, especially to deal with the Soviet heaviest assaulting guns

[DefiantXYX]

Wise decision to leave out DvG. For AO45 expect the final Soviet scenarios even harder than Saratov.

It might work by picking some wise general traits. Denied artillery for some extra points and chose a 4.hero. I already have to sell heroes because I am nearly full and I have the feeling I am a bit unlucky with the 5000 category. Got the first overstrength hero in 1944, no zero slot since 3 years

[Grondel]

Wise decision to leave out DvG. For AO45 expect the final Soviet scenarios even harder than Saratov.

It might work by picking some wise general traits. Denied artillery for some extra points and chose a 4.hero. I already have to sell heroes because I am nearly full and I have the feeling I am a bit unlucky with the 5000 category. Got the first overstrength hero in 1944, no zero slot since 3 years

Zero slot has it´s own cap. If andrea follows my settings it´s 1 per 2 years, so in 44 u can have max 4 zero slots.

sers,
Thomas

[Andrea69]

Wise decision to leave out DvG. For AO45 expect the final Soviet scenarios even harder than Saratov.

It might work by picking some wise general traits. Denied artillery for some extra points and chose a 4.hero. I already have to sell heroes because I am nearly full and I have the feeling I am a bit unlucky with the 5000 category. Got the first overstrength hero in 1944, no zero slot since 3 years

Zero slot has it´s own cap. If andrea follows my settings it´s 1 per 2 years, so in 44 u can have max 4 zero slots.

sers,
Thomas

Yes, this is the current setting. Also Vigilant, IncMaxOverstrength, Camouflage and NoRetaliation heroes are capped like this.

[DefiantXYX]

Zero slot has it´s own cap. If andrea follows my settings it´s 1 per 2 years, so in 44 u can have max 4 zero slots.

Ah, didnt know its 1 per 2 years. I think I have 2 or 3. Plus the super heroes.

[88Flak]

Making some progress. The map improvements in 1939 certainly improve game play. If I had a request, it would be to give the Poles a little more backbone. Maybe a few more armor units. I’d also humbly request another scenario or two. With the first half of the campaign spent against France, I always felt that AO Poland was a little light,

1940 - pretty much the same in France. Gameplay is definitely improved, but the French could use a little more grit. Whatever you did with the British really helped their defense of Sealion 40. I thought they were much more competent in defending their island. Another battle or two in France would also be on my wish list. Adding Lillehammer was a good choice. I didn’t play the Netherlands path yet.

1941 - The improved strength of the British continue as I thought they were a tougher opponent in Greece. It seems like the more the maps were modified, the more it improved them. Haven’t done army group north yet. I thought Raseiniai seemed a little easier. Overall a giant step forward. My main criticisms of the early AO series was map scaling and the Allies were too easy. Maybe this makes the game mirror history, but I always like a tougher opponent.

Keep up the GREAT work!

[Andrea69]

Making some progress. The map improvements in 1939 certainly improve game play. If I had a request, it would be to give the Poles a little more backbone. Maybe a few more armor units. I’d also humbly request another scenario or two. With the first half of the campaign spent against France, I always felt that AO Poland was a little light,

Thanks for your feedback. Well, I did definitely less editing in AO39 compared to subsequent years, but I do agree about including some more Polish scenarios. At the moment I'm pretty busy with the review of AO46, but later I will definitely do a further review of the whole package, and at that point I might add a couple of scenarios in Poland (considering also that there is an upcoming DLC just about this with new units and stuff)

1940 - pretty much the same in France. Gameplay is definitely improved, but the French could use a little more grit. Whatever you did with the British really helped their defense of Sealion 40. I thought they were much more competent in defending their island. Another battle or two in France would also be on my wish list. Adding Lillehammer was a good choice. I didn’t play the Netherlands path yet.
[/quote]

Well, imho you should have played the Netherlands path as so you missed a powerful infantry hero like Witzig

1941 - The improved strength of the British continue as I thought they were a tougher opponent in Greece. It seems like the more the maps were modified, the more it improved them. Haven’t done army group north yet. I thought Raseiniai seemed a little easier. Overall a giant step forward. My main criticisms of the early AO series was map scaling and the Allies were too easy. Maybe this makes the game mirror history, but I always like a tougher opponent.

Keep up the GREAT work!
[/quote]

Don't choose Army Group North if you do not want to play vanilla, I did not touch it. Anyway, as you progress through the series you will notice increasingly deep changes in terms of maps and often also gameplay.

[DefiantXYX]

Well, imho you should have played the Netherlands path as so you missed a powerful infantry hero like Witzig

Do you think about a way to get these strong hereos even if you chose another path? Easiest way could be to trigger an event on the next map and you have to pay (prestige) for this hero.
Later I dont like to play leningrad, but its stupid to not get manstein hero, its a zero slot dude. If you chose the other path you just get some crap in exchange, at least in the vanilla version.

[Andrea69]

Well, imho you should have played the Netherlands path as so you missed a powerful infantry hero like Witzig

Do you think about a way to get these strong hereos even if you chose another path? Easiest way could be to trigger an event on the next map and you have to pay (prestige) for this hero.
Later I dont like to play leningrad, but its stupid to not get manstein hero, its a zero slot dude. If you chose the other path you just get some crap in exchange, at least in the vanilla version.

In future versions, if I decide to apply the same revision work also to the paths not taken into consideration so far, this could be a good solution. For now though, and this means in the next version, I will integrate Manstein into the already revised path (i.e. the simplest solution).

[Andrea69]

Hello, unfortunately in the current version there is still an error in Minsk1941 that prevents the storehouse to work properly. If someone wants to grab the Soviet equipment at Vilejka has to replace the LUA script of the scenario with this new one I am posting.